Will it have an impact on the economy in Europe? Is it going to break the European Union apart?
I probably should read up some more on the issue before adding my two cents.
My original comment was "Good for the Irish to vote NO". More countries, had it been up for vote, probably would have had a similar reaction. I do not think it will break the EU apart, but they will probably have to do some reshuffling and restructuring.
Sometimes "majority" simply means that all the fools are on the same side
From what I have heard, the other governments are going to proceed with implementing Treaty compliance regardless. There is a general disbelief amongst the political class that the people could be so foolish as to vote for nationalism and sovereignty over the federalizing of Europe, and some pundits were even calling for more of such referendums until the desired objective is obtained.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
I just delays the inevitable. The EU will get the treaty pushed through it will just take a little longer. The Lisbon treaty essentially rolls all the other treaties made into one single one and greatly expands the power and authority of the EU over member states. The globalist will eventually get their United States of Europe which can then cede authority over to the UN.
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. " -- Samuel Adams.
Okay monkey, get off the UN, it is fading into irrelevance.<P><P>Re: Heroic, but they will make them vote until the right result, like Nizza.
scineram: ... get off the UN, it is fading into irrelevance...
... get off the UN, it is fading into irrelevance...
Based on what?
scineram: Okay monkey, get off the UN, it is fading into irrelevance.<P><P>Re: Heroic, but they will make them vote until the right result, like Nizza.
You're an idiot. What evidence do you have that the UN is "fading into irrelevance"? If anything it get's stronger every year. Do a little research instead of blindly go along with everything you're told.
The NO campaign did a lot of scaremongering about EU-wide taxation (not mentioned in the treaty at all), EU militarilisation and "privatisation of health and education".
The reason the NO vote prevailed in the end was because people essentially didn't actully know what the Treaty was about.
Now sit back and watch Europe demand a second vote because of supposed voter ignorance.
Irish Liberty Forum
The problem is that they can hold the referendum again and again each year.
Did Ireland vote against the EU this year? They can vote again next yer.
Once you vote to join the EU, it's practically impossible to withdraw.
I read that many provisions of the EU are being implemented via treaty. That's a loophole to avoid a referendum.
I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.
Do you guys know why Ireland held a referendum to the Treaty? The all point of renaming the Consitution as the Treaty was to avoid the referendums which went very bad were they were voted. Were the people there outreagous that the Constitution referendum was not uphold or something? Were there no attempts of the EU to stop this? (it would be pretty obvious were it would lead to...)
I don't think this will have any effect. They'd do it majority vote, and Ireland already signed the Treaty anyway.
Equality before the law and material equality are not only different but are in conflict with each other; and we can achieve either one or the other, but not both at the same time. -- F. A. Hayek in The Constitution of Liberty
BlackSheep:Do you guys know why Ireland held a referendum to the Treaty?
I heard on the Beeb that the way their constitution is structured they have to put major treaties like this to a vote.
Assuming they actually have a constitution that is...feel free to substitute 'founding document' if need be.
My favorite part of all this is the utter outrage through Europe that 3(?) million people could basically dictate the future course of Europe while they completely ignore the fact that without this vote the number of people doing the dictating would be in the dozens.
Mind you this is just an end run around the original proposal that was turned down by the voters a while back and even having a vote on it goes against the very nature of this 'treaty'.
Not that I actually care or anything I just listen to the public radio on the Xm a bunch and they were talking about this a few days ago.
Okay. I thought the Lisbon Treaty had already been signed by the states at the time, but it seems the ceremony and all the signing was just some agreement to the draft... I don't really know much about the EU. I think we have some voting for EU members, but I certainely don't remember ever talking with someone about those elections. There's no ads or anything unlike national ones. Anyway, it seems the Ireland voting was 53% against 47%, so a following referendum will work around that.
Does anyone know what the Constitution and now this Treaty is about by the way? Seems like it's more of a consolidation, about the central bank, the legislature and courts and stuff, right? Wikipedia says it includes stuff like the charter of rights that "lists citizens' political, social and economic rights" and is "legally binding over domestic law"... Like if the "right to education", "public health", etc was not sufficiently entrenched in the Euro-speak already... :P
From the BBC:
My first reaction was to send a congratulatory email to my Irish friends. They voted "nay" despite the not-so-veiled threats by a number of EU technocrats (few of you will remember but it's exactly what happened when "Euro-sceptics" and "nationalists" won the general election in Austria a few years ago) and they deserve some credit.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown allegedly immediately phoned French President and EU cheerleader Nicolas Sarkozy to assure him that Britain "will do its part". Whatever this means, but since both Tony Blair and Brown himself promised Labour electors a popular referendum on any new EU treaty this looks like another chance for breaking promises...
Will the Lisbon Teaty go ahead? Yes, absolutely. The EU has cajoled and/or bullied every single government to have its way, despite the fact that current EU laws demand unanimous acceptance rubberstamping by all members for any treaty of this scope. They'll simply change the rules on the run or skip them altogether: who are you going to call? The International Tribunal at The Hague? The UN?
There's a fly in ointment though. Anti-EU sentiment is growing across Europe. It began with the usual squabble over looted goods ("why French farmers get the lion's share?") but it's now gaining momentum. People are struggling to make do with their wage but every evening they are told that "EU economy is growing much more than expected": perhaps large corporations are having a great time but small firms (the backbone of the EU economy) and individuals are suffering from both classic inflation and out of control prices. There's much resentment over the euro and I can assure you that even what a five years ago was considered an excellent wage is now barely enough to get going.
This is an excellent situation to teach people about the evil of socialdemocracy and technocracy.
Yes, it's time for the Dr Goebbels show!
I congratulate the Irish (those who rejected this piece of sh*t anyway). All I can say is, may the EU dissolve and rot.
-Jon
To darkness I condemn you...
Jon Irenicus:All I can say is, may the EU dissolve and rot.
The free borders bit is good. It's the "tax harmonisation" and rules against "unfair tax competition" that annoy me about it mostly (such as the minimum rate of VAT that all member countries are required to impose)... ludicrious. Thankfully the Swiss are still holding out and, even in Switzerland, there's good old Zug (long may they prosper).
The EU is trying to twist their arm though - it hates the competition Switzerland generates. Hopefully they'll stand strong against the behemoth. Pfft, talk about abusive monopolies...
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