"A shallow-minded school of social philosophers, the anarchists, chose to ignore the matter by suggesting a stateless organization of mankind. They simply passed over the fact that men are not angels. They were too dull to realize that in the short run an individual or a group of individuals can certainly further their own interests at the expense of their own and all other peoples' long-run interests. A society that is not prepared to thwart the attacks of such asocial and short-sighted aggressors is helpless and at the mercy of its least intelligent and most brutal members. While Plato founded his Utopia on the hope that a small group of perfectly wise and morally impeccable philosophers will be available for the supreme conduct of affairs, anarchists implied that all men without any exception will be endowed with perfect wisdom and moral impeccability. They failed to conceive that no system of social cooperation can remove the dilemma between a man's or a group's interests in the short run and those in the long run."
"Government as such is not only not an evil, but the most necessary and beneficial institution, as without it no lasting social cooperation and no civilization could be developed and preserved. It is a means to cope with an inherent imperfection of many, perhaps of the majority of all people. If all men were able to realize that the alternative to peaceful social cooperation is the renunciation of all that distinguishes Homo sapiens from the beasts of prey, and if all had the moral strength always to act accordingly, there would not be any need for the establishment of a social apparatus of coercion and oppression. Not the state is an evil, but the shortcomings of the human mind and character that imperatively require the operation of a police power. Government and state can never be perfect because they owe their raison d'etre to the imperfection of man and can attain their end, the elimination of man's innate impulse to violence, only by recourse to violence, the very thing they are called upon to prevent."
- Ludwig von Mises, The Ultimate Foundation of Economic Science (PDF)
"The anarchists overlook the undeniable fact that some people are either too narrow-minded or too weak to adjust themselves spontaneously to the conditions of social life. Even if we admit that every sane adult is endowed with the faculty of realizing the good of social cooperation and of acting accordingly, there still remains the problem of the infants, the aged, and the insane. We may agree that he who acts antisocially should be considered mentally sick and in need of care. But as long as not all are cured, and as long as there are infants and the senile, some provision must be taken lest they jeopardize society. An anarchistic society would be exposed to the mercy of every individual. Society cannot exist if the majority is not ready to hinder, by the application or threat of violent action, minorities from destroying the social order. This power is vested in the state or government."
- Ludwig von Mises, Human Action
"In an anarchist society is the possibility entirely to be excluded that someone may negligently throw away a lighted match and start a fire or, in a fit of anger, jealousy, or revenge, inflict injury on his fellow man? Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints. Liberalism is not anarchism, nor has it anything whatsoever to do with anarchism. The liberal understands quite clearly that without resort to compulsion, the existence of society would be endangered and that behind the rules of conduct whose observance is necessary to assure peaceful human cooperation must stand the threat of force if the whole edifice of society is not to be continually at the mercy of any one of its members. One must be in a position to compel the person who will not respect the lives, health, personal freedom, or private property of others to acquiesce in the rules of life in society. This is the function that the liberal doctrine assigns to the state: the protection of property, liberty, and peace."
- Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism (PDF)
"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises
Human Action:The anarchists overlook the undeniable fact that some people are either too narrow-minded or too weak to adjust themselves spontaneously to the conditions of social life. Even if we admit that every sane adult is endowed with the faculty of realizing the good of social cooperation and of acting accordingly, there still remains the problem of the infants, the aged, and the insane. We may agree that he who acts antisocially should be considered mentally sick and in need of care. But as long as not all are cured, and as long as there are infants and the senile, some provision must be taken lest they jeopardize society. An anarchistic society would be exposed to the mercy of every individual. Society cannot exist if the majority is not ready to hinder, by the application or threat of violent action, minorities from destroying the social order. This power is vested in the state or government.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
I disagree with Mises...
HOORAY I WIN!
DANCING TIME!
'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition
Poptech: "A shallow-minded school of social philosophers, the anarchists, chose to ignore the matter by suggesting a stateless organization of mankind. They simply passed over the fact that men are not angels. They were too dull to realize that in the short run an individual or a group of individuals can certainly further their own interests at the expense of their own and all other peoples' long-run interests. A society that is not prepared to thwart the attacks of such asocial and short-sighted aggressors is helpless and at the mercy of its least intelligent and most brutal members. While Plato founded his Utopia on the hope that a small group of perfectly wise and morally impeccable philosophers will be available for the supreme conduct of affairs, anarchists implied that all men without any exception will be endowed with perfect wisdom and moral impeccability. They failed to conceive that no system of social cooperation can remove the dilemma between a man's or a group's interests in the short run and those in the long run." - Ludwig Von Mises, The Ultimate Foundation of Economic Science (PDF)
- Ludwig Von Mises, The Ultimate Foundation of Economic Science (PDF)
You're suggesting that because people are not angels, we should have some ruling over us?
"The proper study of Man is anything but Man; and the most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity."
Juan:I suppose Mises was having a bad day when he 'refuted' anarchy...
I have never read Mises supporting anarchy, that would be Rothbard.
Seph:You're suggesting that because people are not angels, we should have some ruling over us?
Mises clearly suggest this. I find it ironic that the anarchists at LVM are not well read on Mises.
We get it, Mises didnt support anarchy and he has long quotes stating so.
Now, do you have an original thought?
Maybe Juan will call Mises a neo-con now. ROFLMAO!!!
Poptech:I have never read Mises supporting anarchy, that would be Rothbard.
Juan:For the third time : 'We' all know that Mises was not an anarchist. Maybe you didn't ?
Are you saying that Mises was not an anarchist? Wow.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
Juan:Well, I sort of figured out that Mises was not an anarchist by reading some of his thoughts on government...
That's why you're my friend. Because you're a bright guy.
First, 'von' is not capitalized(except maybe at the beginning of a sentence); second, Mises was a product of his times(I'm not even sure anarcho-capitalism was even around at the time).
Keynes must've been a fan of Brave New World; why else would he write a book about its economics?
Steven Pinker makes the same claim in his recent claims about the reduction of violence in societies. It seems to be a straw man.
Anarcho-socialism nor an-cap says that men need to be angels. I think even a brief reading of any of the anarcho-socialists at that time would have made for a better critique. Most anarchists think government should be by workers democratically deciding stuff like unionism writ large. Not Mad Maxism where people just are naked and run wild. An-caps move toward the defense that can be funded voluntarily, of course.
Capitalism and anarchism both have a strange similarity. Most anarchists claim "capitalism never works -- it fails, it's a crisis, it sucks, and most people hate it, yada yada yada." But then fail to see that nearly everyone thinks the same of anarchism (due to whatever bigotry, lack of understanding/imagination). And Mises' quote here of big guys destroying little guys... and a few idiots being helpless in an another wise rational and capable society is always the caricature of free markets, ironically.
Minarchism opens a big door when you make even such small claims. Which is why free markets and states become disasterous mixes... the market producing a lot of wealth for the "helping" state to take and grow into tyranny. As Walter Block duly noted when calling Hayek and Friedman statists (or "communists" or something). That's definitely something Mises left out.
As a side note, I wonder if a Misesian has anything to write about socialist anarchism. Since they don't have a state and central authority, I'm not sure what the pragmatic/utilitarian arguments would be against socialist anarchism in terms of calculation and so forth. (if that be a concern, given the usual moral arguments for social anarchism that might outweigh other things). Sure they would not have prices (though some might, I'm not sure), but who does the calculation and how does stuff work in a socialist anarchist society exactly? I'd like to hear a debate between Misesians and social anarchists on this topic. We already know why states suck, but would a more decentralized system fall to the same problems?
BioTube:I'm not even sure anarcho-capitalism was even around at the time
Rothbard effectively created it so no but none of that changes the fact that Mises was not an anarchist and did not support anarchy.
I never said it did, but it's important to understand just what he was talking about.
technicly wasnt prouhdon a market anarchist as he believed that all human services can be provided on the voluntary marketplace
Juan:That's another big piece of misinformation.
Rothbard effectively created... and named it so. Can you show me where Gustave called it Anarcho-capitalism? Exactly, it is not misinformation but a fact.
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