Speculation on how the collapse of the US will go down

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Clayton replied on Sun, Sep 23 2012 11:36 PM

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And there is only speculation as you can't possibly know what avenues of power it has.  My comparison to Icke still stands, my friend...

Compare all you like. The difference between me and Icke is that he attributes super-human, alien powers to the Power Elite. This is a form of disinfo, in my view, a particularly pernicious form that attempts to marginalize the very plausible idea that we are ruled by a cabal of secret rulers by "pushing it to the extreme" and suggesting that they are actually superhuman.

This suits the purposes of the ruling elite just fine, as they don't mind if we hate them so long as we fear them. A secret cabal of flesh-and-blood homo sapiens - evolutionary descendants of apes - wielding power from behind the scenes are just a bunch of criminal assholes. Super-intelligent, trans-dimensional lizards and aliens, on the other hand, is a hell of a lot scarier. Don't mess with them, who knows what will get probed.

You see, Foreign Affairs will get research papers that are conducted at Carnegie Mellon and Univeristy of Maryland paid for by the Crown Institute and published through the Saban Center at Brookings Institute.  All you have to do is look for authors and you can find where the money for the policy comes from.  The speculation is then limited to the why because they publish the how.  In the case mentioned above the families that donate money to the Crown Institute are there.  You can take their names and find where they are in the caste of elites.

Yes, they make sure that as much information as possible is known so that their global rivals can unearth their entire strategy.

*rolling eyes*

You don't even know what it is...Your "approach" is to read infowars and global research and to think about things just like the rest of us.  It is your source material that I am contending here.  You refuse to start where it is obvious and instead chose to begin speculation at the get go.

I rarely read infowars or globalresearch.

"What do you think they found on the moon that they aren't telling us."  Pfft, if we even went." har har haw.

Dude, the Moon landings were filmed somewhere in Hollywood, look it up. In fact, I even believe that the nuclear bomb is a bunch of bullshit, as well. (However, they may have some kind of EM device(s) that can do very scary Tesla-esque stuff.)

 How will you know?  You have an unfalsifiable "approach" to "analysis."  It is more "fiction" than "analysis" because there are no truth values that can be presented anywhere.  You can't prove it, but no one can prove it wrong either...ancient aliens.

*shrug - criminal investigators use the same approach to decoding networks of drug dealing or other illicit materials trafficking. Inference based on scant evidence combined with praxeological analysis can yield useful "leads" which can provide an avenue for further investigation.

Will you ever read an article about who was behind the Kennedy assassination in Foreign Affairs? Of course not. It's a publication for grown-ups. And that's precisely its problem... any publication that cannot step outside of the politically accepted discourse and ask - and make a good attempt at answering - questions like the Kennedy assassination isn't worth the paper it is or isn't printed on, IMO.

Also, off subject, you are aware of Aliester Crowley, no doubt, what do you make of him in his part of influencing Western culture?  It was he who was spiritual adviser to FDR's Treasury secretary (who designed the dollar), one of his mistresses was Barbara Bush's mom, he is on the cover of Sgt. Peppers, Goats Head Soup is a refernce to him, Zeppelin IV was recorded in one of his mansions...?  Could he be partially responsible for the consciouness of the West being so decadent?

Yes, I'm aware of him. I suppose he could have contributed but I think he's a relative light-weight compared to other influences out there (e.g. the Jesuits).

Clayton -

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Aristophanes replied on Mon, Sep 24 2012 12:19 AM

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Yes, they make sure that as much information as possible is known so that their global rivals can unearth their entire strategy.

Umm.  Believe it or not they do.  It is almost as if it is the gentlemanly elite thing to do (I think you'd agree...they treat each other cordially).  You said it is interesting when the elites start to "stab each other in the back," no?  The publishing of strategy is simply something that is done because the elites cannot shape regional affairs by their words and money alone.  Only indirectly do those things influence society.  If Bilderberg 2012 yields a 25 year plan agreed to by Pepsi, Raytheon, etc. then the publication of that strategy only serves to make the game fair for the others.

Which Path To Persia? - Look through that (just the beginning has all of the credits) and tell me that you don't know exactly who is behind it; it is not the authors, but the organizations that employ and financed their study.  One of the authors was arrested for spying and informing to Israel...

Rebuilding America's Defenses - There aren't many newspapers or a priori deductions that I can make that net me the sinn (sense) of what is said

Control of the sea could be largely determined not by fleets of surface combatants and aircraft carriers, but from land- and space-based systems, forcing navies to maneuver and fight underwater.  Space itself will become a theater of war, as nations gain access to space capabilities and come to rely on them; further, the distinction between military and commercial space systems – combatants and noncombatants – will become blurred. Information systems will become an important focus of attack, particularly for U.S. enemies seeking to short-circuit sophisticated American forces.  And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool. (page 60)

Space, underwater navies, blah blah... Ope! Did you get that there at the end?  Race-based bioweapons as useful population control tool?

They'd never publish that...oh my...

Yes, both documents are obviously propaganda, but they are absolutely useful when one can discern between propaganda (usually who it is aimed for) and the actual guts (sinn) of what is being proposed.  The plans must be proposed (Rothschild doesn't walk into Congress and start writing laws and striking things).  He forms "legitimate propaganda" (something to be used on an official capacity) to "persuade" the underlings.

George Orwell explains here and here that government bureaucracies use language unfamiliar to the layman to sell ideas.

When you examine Government leaflets and White Papers, or leading articles in the newspapers, or the speeches and broadcasts of politicians, or the pamphlets and manifestos of any political party whatever, the thing that nearly always strikes you is their remoteness from the average man. It is not merely that they assume non-existent knowledge: often it is right and necessary to do that. It is also that clear, popular, everyday language seems to be instinctively avoided. The bloodless dialect of government spokesmen (characteristic phrases are: in due course, no stone unturned, take the earliest opportunity, the answer is in the affirmative) is too well known to be worth dwelling on. Newspaper leaders are written either in this same dialect or in an inflated bombastic style with a tendency to fall back on archaic words (peril, valour, might, foe, succour, vengeance, dastardly, rampart, bulwark, bastion) which no normal person would ever think of using. Left-wing political parties specialize in a bastard vocabulary made up of Russian and German phrases translated with the maximum of clumsiness. And even posters, leaflets and broadcasts which are intended to give instructions, to tell people what to do in certain circumstances, often fail in their effect. For example, during the first air raids on London, it was found that innumerable people did not know which siren meant the Alert and which the All Clear. This was after months or years of gazing at A.R.P. posters. These posters had described the Alert as a ‘warbling note’: a phrase which made no impression, since air-raid sirens don’t warble, and few people attach any definite meaning to the word.

In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. Things like the continuance of British rule in India, the Russian purges and deportations, the dropping of the atom bombs on Japan, can indeed be defended, but only by arguments which are too brutal for most people to face, and which do not square with the professed aims of the political parties. Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness. Defenseless villages are bombarded from the air, the inhabitants driven out into the countryside, the cattle machine-gunned, the huts set on fire with incendiary bullets: this is called pacification. Millions of peasants are robbed of their farms and sent trudging along the roads with no more than they can carry: this is called transfer of population or rectification of frontiers. People are imprisoned for years without trial, or shot in the back of the neck or sent to die of scurvy in Arctic lumber camps: this is called elimination of unreliable elements. Such phraseology is needed if one wants to name things without calling up mental pictures of them. Consider for instance some comfortable English professor defending Russian totalitarianism. He cannot say outright, "I believe in killing off your opponents when you can get good results by doing so." Probably, therefore, he will say something like this:

"While freely conceding that the Soviet regime exhibits certain features which the humanitarian may be inclined to deplore, we must, I think, agree that a certain curtailment of the right to political opposition is an unavoidable concomitant of transitional periods, and that the rigors which the Russian people have been called upon to undergo have been amply justified in the sphere of concrete achievement."

Sort of like how Chemtrails is polarizing and scary and laughable, but unilateral geoengineering is serious, scientific, and happening.  There is no reason for them to hide it.  People aren't smart enough to find it.

Take this for instance:

The danger of stopping once geoengineering starts

If albedo-adjusting geoengineering were to proceed for an extended period while CO2 emissions continued or grew, cessation of geoengineering could yield rapid, large and damaging shocks to the climate system. While this issue has not been studied with much detail, one recent simulation18 suggests that if a system reducing solar flux abruptly failed or was terminated, carbon sinks would weaken, potentially leading to unprecedented global temperature increases of 2-4°C per decade (more than ten times the current rate of temperature change). Such a rapid increase would surely have profound negative impacts on ecosystems and much else that depends on climate.

Developments that could justify geoengineering

Despite great uncertainty about geoengineering, and the likely negative environmental consequences that it could have, if we are surprised by unexpectedly rapid or large climate change, there might be situations in which the governments of the world would be justified in taking collectively action. Here are just two examples... (pages 9 & 10)

It might seem like that they want to prevent it, but if the elite compartmentalize, you could use this particular publication as evidence for your synthetic evaluations about the elite.  The suggestions that follow are both bunk (imo), but people buy them and these are basically instructions for academics in these fields.  As evidence, this would be better than going on about moon landing tapings in Hollywood (I thought Kubrick was in London?!).

Dude, the Moon landings were filmed somewhere in Hollywood, look it up. In fact, I even believe that the nuclear bomb is a bunch of bullshit, as well. (However, they may have some kind of EM device(s) that can do very scary Tesla-esque stuff.)

I've seen that stuff too, but all those are are rumors.  Actually, I remember, now, watching a rather convincing video where the astronauts had a circle cut in a piece of paper that was creating the illusion of distance in the window when the camera was set far enough back and the lights off.  I'll do good faith research into the moon landing hollywood thing, although, I think the things we left up there that can be seen with amateur telescopes might be at odds with it.

Will you ever read an article about who was behind the Kennedy assassination in Foreign Affairs? Of course not. It's a publication for grown-ups. And that's precisely its problem... any publication that cannot step outside of the politically accepted discourse and ask - and make a good attempt at answering - questions like the Kennedy assassination isn't worth the paper it is or isn't printed on, IMO.

Geroge Joaniddes.

Yea, the CIA aren't going to let stuff like that get out.

Yes, I'm aware of him. I suppose he could have contributed but I think he's a relative light-weight compared to other influences out there (e.g. the Jesuits).

I think for one guy, incidentally, influencing a series of the most influential musicians of the century is a big deal.  What can you prove the Jesuits have been up to?  Giving up their owns and joing with their forming competition?

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Clayton replied on Mon, Sep 24 2012 3:31 AM

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Umm.  Believe it or not they do.  It is almost as if it is the gentlemanly elite thing to do (I think you'd agree...they treat each other cordially).

That the world is ruled by 13 secret bloodlines of shape-shifting, half-breed Lizard-aliens is a far more believable story. Sheesh.

 Space, underwater navies, blah blah... Ope! Did you get that there at the end?  Race-based bioweapons as useful population control tool?

They'd never publish that...oh my...

But that's just it - the Power Elite are not racists, I mean, not in the ordinary sense. They do believe they have superior genetics but that is true! How could it not be? Their ancestors have had the pick of the genetic litter for many centuries, at least. Of course they have superior genetics to the rest of us. But otherwise, I don't think they give one diddling shit about white people more than black people. We're all their serfs, regardless of skin color.

Quotes like this are part of the Alex Jones-level of disinfo. The Elites feed their CFR troops this kind of porno-propaganda to keep them feeling like they've got the real inside scoop. "Shhhh, don't tell anyone but we're planning to deploy race-based bioweapons on the public. OK, I got to go type up my editorial on the evils of racism and how America needs to break free of its racist attitudes. What an evil gangster I am, publicly typing up one thing while secretly planning another! Ooooooooooh!!!!"

It might seem like that they want to prevent it, but if the elite compartmentalize, you could use this particular publication as evidence for your synthetic evaluations about the elite.  The suggestions that follow are both bunk (imo), but people buy them and these are basically instructions for academics in these fields.  As evidence, this would be better than going on about moon landing tapings in Hollywood (I thought Kubrick was in London?!).

Again, you keep talking about evidence like I'm trying to prove some case to the public. I'm not. Because I don't believe it would affect the public in the slightest (cf 9/11, JFK, et. al. in which the governemnt can fairly easily be seen to have been telling massive lies), I have no interest in trying to "make a case". I'm only interested in trying to understand for myself what "they" might be up to. And when I say "they", I don't mean the middle-management at the CFR or the meat-market on K-street or the gray-faced leeches orbiting DC, I mean the Power Elite, the owners of this country (and the rest of the planet).

I've seen that stuff too, but all those are are rumors.  Actually, I remember, now, watching a rather convincing video where the astronauts had a circle cut in a piece of paper that was creating the illusion of distance in the window when the camera was set far enough back and the lights off.  I'll do good faith research into the moon landing hollywood thing, although, I think the things we left up there that can be seen with amateur telescopes might be at odds with it.

This shows Apollo 16 video that is clearly faked. Why would they fake just one video? Case closed.

I think for one guy, incidentally, influencing a series of the most influential musicians of the century is a big deal.

*shrug - OK, he had some influence.

What can you prove the Jesuits have been up to?  Giving up their owns and joing with their forming competition?

Not much. As the oldest extant fraternal order, they are damn good at covering their tracks. As for what they are generally about, you just need to look at their original charter: to infiltrate, surveil, disrupt and disband Protestant, anabaptist and other heretical Christian sects. I believe the Jesuits control the Freemasons (outside of England, in any case) and, by extension, many other secret societies. I think they have been the driving force behind New Age religion and many other movements.

Basically, it's a kind of a "religious imperialism" where you drive people to leaders. Leaders can eventually be subverted and coopted. Leaderless movements are what's dangerous because there is no way to "steer" them. So, to head off new movements before they gain steam, they actually foster the genuine development of those movements into organized movements with leaders. Then, they move in at a later time and take over the movement.

I think their scope has expanded since the time of the Reformation and I think the Jesuits generally play the role of the "dark side of the force", so to speak. Their job is to create the nightmare that people don't want so the Vatican can offer them the alternative ("salvation"). CIA/MI6/et. al. have copied this methodology and use it in their respective colonial adventures.

Somalia today is a great example of this principle in action. You have al-Shabaab extremists who are the "heel" or the "dark side". "This is what you'll get if you don't sign up for the Transitional Federal Government." So, the TFG is the Somalis' salvation from al-Shabaab. I doubt the Jesuits are involved in this as I don't think colonial governance is their turf, but it just shows how the techniques they pioneered have disseminated into the wider art of power.

Clayton -

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Aristophanes replied on Mon, Sep 24 2012 4:07 AM

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But that's just it - the Power Elite are not racists, I mean, not in the ordinary sense. They do believe they have superior genetics but that is true! How could it not be? Their ancestors have had the pick of the genetic litter for many centuries, at least. Of course they have superior genetics to the rest of us. But otherwise, I don't think they give one diddling shit about white people more than black people. We're all their serfs, regardless of skin color.

Well, again, if you'd just read some of their writings.  This is Kissinger stuff, my man.  They want to use it for countries and populations that cannot keep breeding under control not to racially cleanse.  Population density will eventually play a role in capital formation and the Western culture won't have the majority of it...

the Power Elite

Have you read this book? [The Power Elite]  Who do you think that refers to?  Because George Carlin isn't making anything more than a broad case, either.  I can't see the logic in categories that are so vague other than sophistry.  You mention the British Royals, but if you are that high who are the Asian secret society leaders?  Surely they wouldn't fall prey to Jesuit tricks, or other religious that aren't necessarily musilm, or liberal capitalism.  You wouldn't be interested in Rockefeller money would you?  I have wondered myself what the point of funding Dr. Kinsey was?  The only critical examination I have found that was worth reading was a Jesuit educated Catholic Professor that Notre Dame let go because he said they 'weren't Catholic enough', so I don't know what to think.  This would suggest to me that the scientific researchers of the eugenics movement in America are at odds with the desires of the Jesuits.  (Huxley vs. Aquinas & the Banquet of the Chestnuts).   And if they have opposing goals where are their clashes at?

Funny enough that same author wrote about the Illuminati and how Weishaupt took the Jesuit heirarchy and the Masonic traditions and combined them into a system of paternal knowledge order aimed at undermining all of the churches and governments in Europe.  The uppers have the dirt on the lowers (reputation wise) so the key is to recruit and diminsh the target on your back by becoming an upper.  You have dirt on the lowers and hence a means to manipulate them.  This is the structure that the Jacobins used to take over Masonic Lodges.  But, as I'm sure you know, the Nazis and the Soviets both ended up with the French Grand Lodge "secret artifacts" and they weren't returned by the Soviets to the French Masons until 1990.  Who knows what kind of dirt on the Western elite that the Nazis and the Soviets ended up with, but still kept secret for them.  Or was it anything important at all?

Their job is to create the nightmare that people don't want so the Vatican can offer them the alternative ("salvation").

So, are you saying they are creating the "terror"?  What nightmare?  I do not trust the Vatican, obviously.  Is there an Arab/Islamic elite that has any significant influence?  Or a Jewish one?  The Arabs used to have an assassin/intelligence order that rivaled the Templars.  Are they still around?

What did the Jesuits have to do with Vatican II?

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Aristippus replied on Mon, Sep 24 2012 4:09 AM

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Clayton: Wait, are you talking about the Jesuits trying to bring people under the dominion of the Catholic Church?  If so, they must be pretty terrible at it, since the Church has been in decline for a long time:

http://www.tldm.org/news6/statistics.htm

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=14190

Look at that, despite the increase in population over the last 50 years in the USA, there has been an absolute decline in all categories.  Church attendance is less than half what it was then. 

Catholic numbers are only up in poor countries with high birth rate - and it should be noted that in those countries Catholicism, and in particular the Society of Jesus is being increasingly infiltrated by Marxist 'Liberation Theology'.  Are you saying that this is a Jesuit plan?

Aristophanes:

What did the Jesuits have to do with Vatican II?

In my opinion Vatican II was a purposeful watering-down of the Catholic Church in line with the crippling modern zeitgeist, a result of its infiltration by external forces (which was completed by 1958 at the latest).