The Mises Community
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.
Forums
 »
Economics
 »
Political Theory
 »
standardized education

Thank you for your participation and interest in the Mises Community. This software platform has seen its day, however, and so is now closed. We are redoing our entire site, so look for some exciting developments by the end of the year. Thank you for your support of Austrian economics, liberty, and peace.

standardized education

rated by 0 users
This post has 10 Replies | 1 Follower

Top 150 Contributor
Posts 639
Points 11,575
Reply
cab21 Posted: Sun, Sep 16 2012 6:30 PM

do you think there can be a standardized best practices lesson policy created for subjects that private teachers could teach?

a recent stefan m video seems to say that lessons plans ought to be standardized and that there could be one best way to teach a subject and everyone ought to teach that way rather than individual lesson plans catered to individual students

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwoM7jjBHH8&feature=player_embedded

  • | Post Points: 65
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,018
Points 17,760
Reply
Kelvin Silva replied on Sun, Sep 16 2012 7:20 PM

The problem with standardization is that it takes away the very essence of private schooling: choice.

If all schools are required to teach 1 way or another then really we have just taken out the Private in private schooling.

Parents want choices, they can go to school x to learn x, school y to learn y; not a standardized system where school x and y teach z.

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,984
Points 89,720
Reply
Wheylous replied on Sun, Sep 16 2012 8:06 PM

I am very suspicious of such efforts. Sure, general guidelines for a standard curriculum might work, but I think that a free market would not evolve into this. I highly doubt that teaching everyone the exact same thing the exact same way would work. Either way, entrepreneurship would figure this out. I could be wrong (doubt it).

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,850
Points 85,810
Reply
Andrew Cain replied on Sun, Sep 16 2012 8:21 PM

It depends. If you are teaching more then ten students then standardization makes sense. Also the education level of students dictates guidlines. Teaching graduate students is different then teaching college freshmen. Different expectations etc. 

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,850
Points 85,810
Reply
Andrew Cain replied on Sun, Sep 16 2012 9:00 PM

Ok I was just listening to the podcast and I have some issues with the points he raises. 

1. Standardization does not mean that all kids will "get it," therefore just going onto Google to get lesson plans off of the internet is not going to make it "stick" Nor does it make it "objective."

2. It is outrageous to say: "You get paid too much, oh what's that? You are working on how you are going to teach your class for the coming semester, well that is pointless! You are doing too much! Go to google, get a lesson plan." 

3. He uses the scare word of "experiement" with children, as if teachers are strapping kids to the desk and drilling holes into them. There are various methods of teaching. Some people react well by simply being lectured to in the classroom. Some need powerpoint notes. Some need to watch media like videos or speeches. You do "experiment" to see which reaches the student the best. 

4. How can he say there is no standardization when we have No Child Left Behind which is the penultimate of standardization? You have other programs like reagents exams, standardized testing with things like the FCAT here in Florida, the SAT, the GRE, the ACT. It is really standardization that is killing the creative nature of education. Education is dying because of this and that is why he is machine-gunning off statistics. However, the best comment is this:

"Quality is measurability" If you cannot quantify it, then it does not mean anything. Doesn't some small tiny Austrian voice inside your head go..."Whhhaaat?"

5. I would really like to see him make this claim about the necessity of standardizing education when the topic of government mandated teaching points are brought up. I would like to see how he relates this premise of collective education with his belief in individualism. Does he believe it? I've never listen to him for an extended period of time. I hear snippets about him so I do not want to false accuse him of something. However, I do recall a incident surrounding him involving the belief that individuals should break away from their "statist" families in order to follow their own path of non-aggression. Is there someone out there who can comment more on this? 

 

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 150 Contributor
Posts 639
Points 11,575
Reply
cab21 replied on Sun, Sep 16 2012 9:25 PM

the podcast seemed weird to me

my thought is best education usaly means individual customised plans that evolve out of the growth of the student.

i am also not aware of a number 1 best way to teach any subject to anyone.

each private school i see uses different teaching methods, so i am not seeing indisputable best practices out there that every private school has chosen to beat out schools that don't use that number 1 teaching method.

the thing about teaching, is that a teacher can't take a test for a student so there is not some 100% corralation between what the teacher teaches and what the student learns. same teacher  but different students= different results. we have stats of poor students scoring lower than richer students so family and non school choices have a bit of a factor here.

i can see school being all private and all, but i'm having a hard time seeing education being some objective quantatitive situation with one best way to teach each subject.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,850
Points 85,810
Reply
Andrew Cain replied on Sun, Sep 16 2012 9:32 PM

Everything you stated is exactly my sentiment. 

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,018
Points 17,760
Reply
Kelvin Silva replied on Mon, Sep 17 2012 1:32 AM

How can stefan be libertarian but still advocate this kind of thinking?

Or is he not a libertarian?

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 814
Points 14,875
Moderator
Reply
Physiocrat replied on Mon, Sep 17 2012 2:55 AM

When it comes to education there are five questions that need to be answered:

1) What is education?

2) What is it for?  (The crux of the matter)

3) What should you learn?

4) How do people learn?

5) What institutional structures should be in place to achieve 2) and 4)?

These questions are seldom asked in any educational debate especially 1) and 2). It normally ends up in asking 5) only with the assumption that the telos of education is to "get a good job".

The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.

Yours sincerely,

Physiocrat

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,417
Points 41,720
Moderator
Not Ranked
Male
Posts 79
Points 1,475
Reply
Walden replied on Mon, Sep 17 2012 2:01 PM

He may very well associate his own success with the rigorous schooling he had growing up. Rather than change the model he wants to cut out what he found undesirable.

Mental exertion is in fact a completely fabricated idea. Tensing your brow and sitting for hours in a class room doesn't make you a better thinker. The brain thinks effortlessly. Forcing it to perform (impossible) gives many people anxiety and probably can explain many adult Americans aversion to reading for pleasure.

It may dampen other impulses (e.g., the urge to "have fun") thereby making other impulses primary (to work like a dog). What a joyous vision.

Stef of course fails to see that being well-schooled and being able to think are two very different things. He ought to apply that great brain of his to untangling this insanity.

  • | Post Points: 5
Page 1 of 1 (11 items) | RSS

Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528

Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119

contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises

Mises.org sitemap