Political Theory

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Malachi — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:12:41 GMT

In that case I tend to agree with Autolykos and Anenome that the market could provide atomic solutions. Maybe even figure out how to clean up that waste site in nevada.

Wheylous, do you mean to suggest that high-yield explosives like hand grenades would be prohibited from public anarchic areas in certain neighborhoods? And how do you address the problem of firearms in general needing to be pointed somewhere?

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Anenome — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:02:41 GMT

Malachi:
What if a catastrophic event breaks the thing open and seawater washes all the radioactive material away?

The RTG style has no moving parts in its core, encase that thing in concrete and you're good to go. That's what they had planned too, was to put them underground. Nothing short of like a 9.0 earthquake could damage it. And even then it would just be rendered inoperable, not leaking.

Have you ever heard of... damn what are they called... ah, fusors! The guy who invented the cathode ray tube for televisions spent the last decade of his life trying to build fusion reactors in his house :P He invented this thing called a fusor, by which you can actually create fusion reactions on a tabletop.

Now, they've never been able to get them to produce net energy, but they have been useful as neutron sources, and they do indeed fuze nucleuses. One problem is that air absorbs neutrons. You'll see, read up on them.

They keep making the designs bigger and bigger and more complex... I have a theory that if you were able to micro-size a fusor it might become possible to produce net energy.

Here's a nuclear fusion reactor, a fusor, built by a highschool student:

Beautiful, ne?

There's ongoing work on this, including funding last couple years from the US Navy on something called a polywell, which is a variant fusor design. Apparently it's so far promising enough to keep funding.

Imagine if, one day, we could all have a nuclear reactor in the home, or in the car. That would be truly clean power.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Malachi — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 16:11:56 GMT

What if a catastrophic event breaks the thing open and seawater washes all the radioactive material away?

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Anenome — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:23:47 GMT

Malachi:
At most I am talking fukushima. Otherwise your points are good.

Fukushima-style reactors would never be built today. Especially not after Fukushima :P

It's kinda crazy to me that any reactor was ever built that used a systemically snowballing design, where if something breaks the design can go out of control. Any system this dangerous should be systemically designed such that it's only possible to generate heat when everything's right, and when any part breaks down the only result is cooling, thus meltdown becomes impossible.

There are designs like that nowadays.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Malachi — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 03:34:26 GMT

At most I am talking fukushima. Otherwise your points are good.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Anenome — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 01:12:30 GMT

Malachi:
Where do they get fuel?

You can now mine uranium from seawater; dude invented an efficient way to pull it out.
(Potentially a good power source for seasteads, btw)

Malachi:
Is it enriched in a process that doesnt create waste?

I'm not aware of anything about the enriching process that particularly creates nuclear waste. You're merely separating the two isotopes via chemical and mechanical means. Not unless you mean trying to create plutonium, which the process I'm referring to does not do.

There's even a company offering small maintenance-free nuclear reactors for households and small communities.

Let the free market do its thing. Governments once thought private companies couldn't be trusted with large fuel oil storage, saying it would pose a major danger. That's worked out as best as could be expected.

Malachi:
Do these types of reactors, or the knowledge and technology to construct them, enable engneers to develop nuclear weapons as discussed above?

Not the RTG types, don't think. As for the latter link, couldn't find info about its used process, but I highly doubt it. Govs wouldn't license it if so.

At most you're talking dirty bombs. But dirty bombs are more fear than reality in estimates of actual impact. Sites are more cleanable than people think.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Malachi — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 22:51:53 GMT

Where do they get fuel? Is it enriched in a process that doesnt create waste? Do these types of reactors, or the knowledge and technology to construct them, enable engneers to develop nuclear weapons as discussed above?

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Anenome — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 21:54:23 GMT

Malachi:
Well I dont want to be near a nuclear waste disposal facility. Most americans agree with me which is why the federal government keeps all the waste at a facility in the middle of the desert. Theres an enormous amount of liability associated with poison that lasts almost forever. Furthermore the benefit over petroleum is negligible to nonexistent. I dont anticipate many investors choosing to risk the liability and invest exponentially nore money when they could just buy mineral rights and process those minerals into electricity at a location where this is permissible. This is an opinion based on my personal risk analysis, I'm not trying to speak ex cathedra or whatever.

There exist reactor types that produce clean waste, not dirty, not radioactive.

Also, a reactor can be made as small as a mini-fridge. Many satellites have small nuclear-powered generators on them, mostly using decay-heat for power. There exist a few people still with nuclear-powered pace-makers that work for over 50 years without needing recharge. We could probably make nuclear cellphone batteries now that would last decades without replacement. Certainly we could make ones able to last the usual lifespan of a phone.

I think in a free society that people might very well have home generators.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Malachi — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 19:02:47 GMT

Well I dont want to be near a nuclear waste disposal facility. Most americans agree with me which is why the federal government keeps all the waste at a facility in the middle of the desert. Theres an enormous amount of liability associated with poison that lasts almost forever. Furthermore the benefit over petroleum is negligible to nonexistent. I dont anticipate many investors choosing to risk the liability and invest exponentially nore money when they could just buy mineral rights and process those minerals into electricity at a location where this is permissible. This is an opinion based on my personal risk analysis, I'm not trying to speak ex cathedra or whatever.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Autolykos — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:02:31 GMT

Okay, why do you think that?

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Malachi — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:47:26 GMT

Since I anticipate that nuclear power generators would exist in a "mature" voluntaryist society,

I disagree here. The only thing that makes nuclear power affordable today is the subsidies, particularly with respect to waste disposal.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Autolykos — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 15:03:54 GMT

I'd like to bring up the apparent fact that the US government and its ~~cronies~~ allies are opposed not only to the Iranian government possessing nuclear weapons per se, but also to the Iranian government possessing the mere ability to construct nuclear weapons. So apparently merely possessing the ability to construct nuclear weapons is itself an effective deterrent. And guess what? If a group possesses the ability to construct nuclear power generators, it effectively possesses the ability to construct nuclear weapons.

Since I anticipate that nuclear power generators would exist in a "mature" voluntaryist society, I anticipate the society to have the ability to construct nuclear weapons, thus providing the "ultimate deterrent". Merlin's thesis stands even more easily than he imagined.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Bogart — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 14:32:45 GMT

1. The mall owner needs no policy about guns or threats. If people respect rights to private property then the owner would have every right to remove a person carrying a gun or some other device or threatening customers in some manner regardless of the stated policy. The difference is that without a stated policy the owner must first ask the individual to leave or not bring the device before taking any stronger action.

2. It would depend on homesteading. If the neighbor had the device prior to building a mall in plane view of the mall then the mall owner would have to respect the right of that individual to possess and show such a device. But had the neighbor suddenly pulled out the device on a random Black Friday and intimidated people then the mall owner would have a claim for damages against the neighbor for lost business. Or if the neighbor abandoned the view by removing the device for maintenance even for a small amount of time and the mall owner could start construction and homestead that view from the neighbor.

The answer is sure, you can homestead views and you can abandon vews as well. Keep in mind that homesteading is an active process while abandonment is not . And both of these are very much arbitrary and up to social conventions. If you have a mountain or water view and actively keep it then you have private property rights to that view. Now others can build inbetween provided they do not obstruct the view. If builders say advertise publicly that they are building an office tower in the your view then you have to upkeep that view by actively opposing the project or risk having people consider your view as abandoned thus allowing the office project to continue.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

QuisCustodiet — Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:28:01 GMT

Well what would prevent nukes from becoming that cheap? There has to be a reason.

And why would nukes someday be peanuts? Peanuts, as in the nukes won't be able to hurt anybody? How is that possible? I would think that as technology develops, nukes will be even deadlier. Maybe someone will come up with a Doomsday Device for a million dollars or something. I really think these issues need to be taken on.

Re: Nuclear Weapons in Libertarianism

Wheylous — Thu, 27 Dec 2012 22:50:39 GMT

As to you, QC, I don't think it'll be as cheap as buying a car... And if it happens to become that cheap, then nuclear weapons will likely be peanuts by that point.