Political Theory

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

Wesker1982 — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 02:04:51 GMT

"What about his position on borders? Not very anarcho-capitalistic, is it?"

He wants to turn all government owned land over to private owners. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9eG8ElUms

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

Graham Wright — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:01:34 GMT

SkepticalMetal:

Rothbard didn't believe in the state, thus the only borders would be property lines. Ron Paul however has stated many times that he'd like to see more government enforcement of our borders, which is contrary to the "purist" libertarian advocacy of completely open borders.

The question being put to Ron Paul is essentially: "Given that the state monopolises security, should the state borders be open or closed?". This question is equivalent to: "Given that the state monopolises schooling, should the state schools teach X?".

There is no libertarian answer to either one of these questions, because the premise is incompatible with libertarianism. The only libertarian position is to dispute the premises. Paul doesn't fall into the trap of the answering the second question with a yes or no: he simply disagrees with the premise. But since Paul is basically undercover when it comes to how thinks security should really be provided, he can't publicly disagree with the premise of the first question, so he needs to give an opinion one way or the other about what the policy should be. Answering the question in favor of open borders is no more libertarian than answering in favor of closed borders. There is no libertarian answer.

The position that Paul takes is the same as the one Hoppe talks about here. Essentially, private owners / security firms would almost certainly have a 'closed border' policy, so given the premise that the state exists, it should have a closed border policy as well. Agree or disagree with this reasoning, it cannot be said that one position on the borders question is libertarian while the other is not.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

Kelvin Silva — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 03:23:29 GMT

I think that ron paul is a closeted anarchist.

Remember guys, ron paul is a political ~~animal~~ human, and as such he may say things that he needs to say to align to republican party (enforcing borders).

But if you dig deep enough, he combats illegal immigration by cutting off the welfare state. He hates amnesty.

(Please visit the site to view this media)

he doesnt agree with purist libertarian open borders but also does not like berlin walls around mexico (in that case they will be mexican walls).

So he kinda teeters on the middle ground, because remember if they find out hes an anarchist, his political carreer is screwed.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

Buzz Killington — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 01:36:08 GMT

Yes, but we don't live in a country where all is private, our country is essentially government run.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 01:22:00 GMT

Rothbard didn't believe in the state, thus the only borders would be property lines. Ron Paul however has stated many times that he'd like to see more government enforcement of our borders, which is contrary to the "purist" libertarian advocacy of completely open borders.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

Buzz Killington — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 01:20:20 GMT

SkepticalMetal:
What about his position on borders? Not very anarcho-capitalistic, is it?

I believe his position is essentially the same as Rothbard's.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

Buzz Killington — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 01:11:21 GMT

He's probably in favor of an anarcho-capitalist society in theory but doesn't openly advocate for the complete abolishment of the state because practicality.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 00:33:28 GMT

What about his position on borders? Not very anarcho-capitalistic, is it?

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

FlameOfRevolution — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 19:09:48 GMT

Many people, blinded by their ignorance, have fallen into the Stockholm Effect and embrace their captors (the State) as a necessary part of life.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

SkepticalMetal — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 19:06:25 GMT

And this.

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

Graham Wright — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:46:04 GMT

Someone should really just ask him. Oh wait, someone already did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFYRHZpavX4#t=4m6s

Q: "I know you stand for the Constitution, but what do you say to people who advocate self-government, rather than a return to the Constitution?"

Ron Paul: "Great. Fine. I think that's really what my goal is."

More evidence:

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

SkepticalMetal — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 18:44:24 GMT

Here's something of interest that relates here:

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

The Texas Trigger — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:57:10 GMT

It is hard to say, but in my opinion, I would guess he is a closet anarchist. You cannot be that smart, that dedicated to liberty, and hang out with Murray Rothbard that much, and not be one.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

No2statism — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:42:37 GMT

He is a jeffersonian, but I believe he sees the state as an unnecessary evil just like I do. He has tried to educate, but he realizes that Human Action may prevent a zero world govt and that it may even prevent a zero national govt. Culture and tradition have helped people to think that the state is a necessary evil even though the only constant is change.

Re: Is Ron Paul an Anarchist?

SkepticalMetal — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:28:47 GMT

He could be. I know I never would have become interested in this stuff if it wasn't for him taking libertarianism and all it's variants to the mainstream. I know back in Revolutionary Spain there were anarchist politicians convincing people that government sucks by using the political system as a means to tell this to them, so he could be doing that, in a sense.