Political Theory

Re: UHC is better than American Healthcare.

Neodoxy — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 05:16:49 GMT

Even if we assume that every word you just said was true, it would only indicate the following

That state sponsored systems are awful.
That a private system in which the state is heavily involved may be worse than a system which the state explicitly controls.

Re: UHC is better than American Healthcare.

Wheylous — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:15:38 GMT

The government pays for half of all US healthcare, so... not really a free market thing...

Re: UHC is better than American Healthcare.

xahrx — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:14:02 GMT

"For another, I have no idea what you (or the NYT blog) mean by "cost"."

Probably per capita spending. Of course it never occurs to these dolts that a country with no health care system at all will have lower per capita spending on health care than any other country on the planet. Must be a great system too if it costs them next to nothing!

Re: UHC is better than American Healthcare.

Autolykos — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:58:26 GMT

MissMapleLeaf:
Canadians are overwhelmingly pleased with UHC:http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/august/new_poll_shows_canad.php

This is an appeal to the majority and thus a logical fallacy.

MissMapleLeaf:
The guy in another thread made the claim that 45,000 Canadians went abroad for healthcare. Well, 85,000 Americans went abroad for healthcare: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/health/21patient.html

There are apparently about 34,939,000 people in Canada right now (source) and 314,519,000 people in the United States (source). So about 0.13% of Canadians went abroad for healthcare as opposed to about 0.027% of Americans. Proportionally speaking, then, nearly five times as many Canadians went abroad for healthcare.

MissMapleLeaf:
He also stated that it costs Canadians $5,500 per capita. Well, it costs Americans $8,233 per capita: http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/u-s-health-care-costs-m ore-than-socialized-european-medicine/

For one thing, that link is broken. For another, I have no idea what you (or the NYT blog) mean by "cost".

MissMapleLeaf:
Danny Williams went south for his surgery becuase he went to a luxury spa hotel, not becuase he couldn't get the care here, as do a good portion of those seeking care in the US, it's not about the lack of care in Canada, but the lack of private luxury.

Source(s) please?

MissMapleLeaf:
"46,000 Canadians left Canada in 2011 to seek healthcare in other countries. 46,000 people who would rather pay out of pocket than get "free" healthcare."

This is less than 0.2% of the population of Canada, plus as i said above it';s often about luxury rather than care, but the real misleading thing about that number is that it also includes those that went to the US covered under their provincial plan, sometimes becuase that's where a particular sepcialist is or earlier openings for surgery when waits are long in Canada.

Source(s) please?

MissMapleLeaf:
Not to mention thousands of Americans who come to Canada for care, even Sarah Palin admited to it.

Source(s) please?

Re: UHC is better than American Healthcare.

Phi est aureum — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:53:38 GMT

America doesn't have a free economy. Therefore, the higher costs are to blame on the government's enforcement of a mixed economy with regulations and moral hazard. So that fact didn't prove a thing.

Danny Williams doesn't matter to me.

Nor do I care that Canadians profess to love socialism. That doesn't mean anyone else is obligated to.

And thousands of Canadians come to the US for healthcare, so it doesn't matter. And Sarah Palin isn't a good source, just for future reference.

But again, your problem, kylio, is that you think the US has a free market in health care, meaning you ignore the AMA, the FDA, Medicaid, Medicare, insurance regulations, hospitals regulations, college regulations, pharmaceutical manufacturers regulations, tax break given to employers for employees insurance, privileges given to Blue Cross/Anthem, ACA, etc. etc. Anyone who has a problem with American health care industry should not be looking for the cause of the problems, government, to fix it.

Re: UHC is better than American Healthcare.

Bogart — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:46:53 GMT

Overwhelmingly percentages of for or against opinions means nothing if you personally are the loser in the process.

Everybody is pleased with stuff paid for by someone else. This is of course true until there is not someone else to pay.

Re: UHC is better than American Healthcare.

MissMapleLeaf — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:41:20 GMT

That's all you got from that? Yeah, just ignore the other facts.

Re: UHC is better than American Healthcare.

Phi est aureum — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:39:54 GMT

So approximately 0.027% of Americans left the country for health care while 0.13% of Canadians left the country for healthcare. In other words, as a proportion of their respective countries, Canadians are 5 times more likely to leave their country for health care than Americans. Got it.

UHC is better than American Healthcare.

MissMapleLeaf — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:22:53 GMT

Canadians are overwhelmingly pleased with UHC:http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/august/new_poll_shows_canad.php

The guy in another thread made the claim that 45,000 Canadians went abroad for healthcare. Well, 85,000 Americans went abroad for healthcare: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/health/21patient.html

He also stated that it costs Canadians $5,500 per capita. Well, it costs Americans $8,233 per capita: http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/u-s-health-care-costs-m ore-than-socialized-european-medicine/

He also brought up a Canadian PM Danny Williams that went to Miami for a surgery, because he wanted the "best care".

Danny Williams went south for his surgery becuase he went to a luxury spa hotel, not becuase he couldn't get the care here, as do a good portion of those seeking care in the US, it's not about the lack of care in Canada, but the lack of private luxury.

"46,000 Canadians left Canada in 2011 to seek healthcare in other countries. 46,000 people who would rather pay out of pocket than get "free" healthcare."

This is less than 0.2% of the population of Canada, plus as i said above it';s often about luxury rather than care, but the real misleading thing about that number is that it also includes those that went to the US covered under their provincial plan, sometimes becuase that's where a particular sepcialist is or earlier openings for surgery when waits are long in Canada.

Not to mention thousands of Americans who come to Canada for care, even Sarah Palin admited to it.