Political Theory

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:15:49 GMT

bloomj31:
First of all, I don't really care about what it sounds like to you.

That's fine. I'll keep stating it though.

bloomj31:
Secondly, I can't just stop believing in God, doesn't work that way for me. I feel God's presence, I can't just ignore that.

Inb4 "hurrrr durrr how do you feel God's presence??" I just do. I don't care if that makes sense to you or not.

Looks like someone's acquainted with 4chan.

Anyways, I'm not trying to persuade/convince you to stop believing in God. But on the one hand, I suspect your belief in God is as strong as it is because of its apparent rationalizing power for you. On the other, I think that reveals your belief in God as a sham - which was my point in my last post.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

bloomj31 — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:22:50 GMT

First of all, I don't really care about what it sounds like to you.

Secondly, I can't just stop believing in God, doesn't work that way for me. I feel God's presence, I can't just ignore that.

Inb4 "hurrrr durrr how do you feel God's presence??" I just do. I don't care if that makes sense to you or not.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 15:46:31 GMT

In that case, why bother with a belief in God etc. at all? It sounds to me like it's just a pretense for you to justify doing whatever you want.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

bloomj31 — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:28:07 GMT

Correct.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:27:27 GMT

bloomj31:
Well I hope that's what it is yeah.

Right - so you don't know for sure, but you have faith that that's what it is.

Now I take it that you don't want to do things that "just seem wrong" to you?

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

bloomj31 — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:17:20 GMT

autolykos:
Not necessarily! There's a difference between desire and ability.

True.

autolykos:
So when something "just seems wrong" to you, basically you trust that that's God's way of telling you that He thinks it's wrong?

Well I hope that's what it is yeah.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:03:40 GMT

bloomj31:
I don't expect you to ever shut up. I can hope though.

Good luck with that.

bloomj31:
Thanks I had no idea.

I said it anyways.

bloomj31:
Well I can do whatever I want.

Not necessarily! There's a difference between desire and ability.

bloomj31:
The only question that's ever in my mind is: "will this come back to bite me?"

It's one thing for people to get mad at me it's another thing entirely to incur God's wrath. I'm afraid of death. But I'm even more afraid of the possibility of eternal damnation.

That being said, I have no idea what it is that God wants from me exactly, if he wants anything at all. Some things just seem wrong. That's basically as complicated as it gets for me.

So when something "just seems wrong" to you, basically you trust that that's God's way of telling you that He thinks it's wrong?

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

bloomj31 — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:57:56 GMT

autolykos:
I sure hope you didn't expect that to shut me up.

I don't expect you to ever shut up. I can hope though.

autolykos:
so if the mods/admins think you're a troll, then you might be asked to stop or else get the proverbial boot.

Thanks I had no idea.

autolykos:
Yet you obstinately refuse to outline just what your moral grounds are. The closest you've come to is "following God's will", but you turned around and claimed that you have no idea what "God's will" is. How else are we to interpet this except as a rationalization for you just doing whatever you want?

Well I can do whatever I want. The only question that's ever in my mind is: "will this come back to bite me?"

It's one thing for people to get mad at me it's another thing entirely to incur God's wrath. I'm afraid of death. But I'm even more afraid of the possibility of eternal damnation.

That being said, I have no idea what it is that God wants from me exactly, if he wants anything at all. Some things just seem wrong. That's basically as complicated as it gets for me.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:35:20 GMT

Do you mean a more productive thread? Take your pick.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

excel — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:27:16 GMT

Could anyone please direct me to a less productive thread? I still feel a certain willingness to live.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:20:45 GMT

bloomj31:
I don't care what I sound like to you, you're a nobody.

I sure hope you didn't expect that to shut me up.

Whether you think I'm a "nobody" is irrelevant to me, to be quite honest. If you don't care whether I (or anyone else) think you're a troll, well that's fine. But trolls aren't appreciated around here, so if the mods/admins think you're a troll, then you might be asked to stop or else get the proverbial boot. It's up to you, of course.

bloomj31:
I have fun because I ~~know~~ believe that there's no way in the world any of you are going to agree with me and I ~~know~~ believe I will never agree with any of you.

FTFY

bloomj31:
Yeah you guys can be pretty funny sometimes. I have a sense of humor, maybe you're just such serious business you can't even see the humor in your own behavior.

That presumes, of course, that humor is an objective quality that's observed in something, rather than a subjective value that's imputed to something. But it isn't.

bloomj31:
I've also said that I can respect laws while still disagreeing with them on my own moral grounds.

Yet you obstinately refuse to outline just what your moral grounds are. The closest you've come to is "following God's will", but you turned around and claimed that you have no idea what "God's will" is. How else are we to interpet this except as a rationalization for you just doing whatever you want?

bloomj31:
If I think I can contest a law then I will. I don't do that by not following the law, I do that by trying to get the law changed, by voting for people who I think will do the things I want them to do. If that fails then I'm screwed.

You are screwed.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

bloomj31 — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 01:21:53 GMT

autolykos:
How exactly is it fun to you when issues aren't cleared up? You know that makes you sound like a troll, don't you?

I don't care what I sound like to you, you're a nobody. I have fun because I know that there's no way in the world any of you are going to agree with me and I know I will never agree with any of you. I suppose I could find a forum where everyone was exactly like me but then there wouldn't be very much to talk about.

autolykos:
This sounds like you're amused by our reactions to what you post, and that's why you post here.

Yeah you guys can be pretty funny sometimes. I have a sense of humor, maybe you're just such serious business you can't even see the humor in your own behavior.

autolykos:
Logic is not time- or space-dependent. You've already essentially stated that you consider all laws to be worthy of respect because you presume they're backed by more power than you yourself can muster. That includes slavery laws, segregation and other discrimination laws, and laws requiring Jews to be hauled off to death camps. All of them - no exceptions.

I've also said that I can respect laws while still disagreeing with them on my own moral grounds. If I think I can contest a law then I will. I don't do that by not following the law, I do that by trying to get the law changed, by voting for people who I think will do the things I want them to do. If that fails then I'm screwed.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 00:36:04 GMT

gotlucky:

A person cannot threaten another without making a conscious effort to do so. Perhaps we have to define threat. From wiktionary on threat:

threat (plural threats)

an expression of intent to injure or punish another.

an indication of imminent danger.

a person or object that is regarded as a danger; a menace.

I have been using the first definition for this entire thread. Perhaps you have been using threat to mean "a menace"?

Regardless, my point has to do with definition one. A person cannot make "an expression of intent to injure...another" if he is not already conscious of making the threat. It is my belief that not every disagreement has an expression of intent - implicit or explicit - to injure another looming in the air. I have been in situations where there has been no expression of intent to injure but there was a disagreement.

Indeed, it's clear to me that BloomJ31 has been using "threat" to refer to any non-zero probability of someone employing violence. Since that probability is never zero for any living person, the logical conclusion therefore is that everyone is always a "threat" while he's alive. Hobbesian indeed.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 00:33:57 GMT

bloomj31:
I don't mind not clearing issues up. Where's the fun in that anyway?

How exactly is it fun to you when issues aren't cleared up? You know that makes you sound like a troll, don't you?

bloomj31:
EDIT: There's also something very charming about libertarians. I find the moralism interesting. The hatred for the state is...I don't even know how to describe it. The paranoia is funny sometimes. I don't fear the same things libertarians do and I find that fascinating.

This sounds like you're amused by our reactions to what you post, and that's why you post here. I think there's another term for this.

Re: Liberal Sociology, Social action, and the laissez faire school

Autolykos — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 00:28:56 GMT

bloomj31:
But I am the person I am now in large part, I believe, because of my environment. I've grown up in a time where slavery is seen as awful. But anything can be seen as awful. Would I have respected slavery laws? I have no idea. I don't find slavery particularly appealing now, that's for sure.

Logic is not time- or space-dependent. You've already essentially stated that you consider all laws to be worthy of respect because you presume they're backed by more power than you yourself can muster. That includes slavery laws, segregation and other discrimination laws, and laws requiring Jews to be hauled off to death camps. All of them - no exceptions.

bloomj31:
When I use the word "respect" it's not really about honoring something. It's simply about acknowledging power. I did respect my 8th grade bullies. So much so that I went out of my way to avoid them. Power, to me, is always worthy of respect and fear.

It's one thing for you to want to readily acquiesce to power when you encounter it. It's another for you to want - if not expect or require - everyone else to do the same as well.