Economics Questions

Re: Let's play a game.

Luminar — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:33:45 GMT

Ohhhhh, you had a statist ask you these kinds of questions right? Nd you fell into the trap?

Yeah, the best reply was the "institution of aggression."

Re: Let's play a game.

Aristippus — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 04:54:30 GMT

Want to continue the fun and games, Luminar? http://mises.org/community/forums/t/31805.aspx

Re: Let's play a game.

Michael J Green — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 04:04:14 GMT

Clearly, the only solution is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

Re: Let's play a game.

Kelvin Silva — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:50:47 GMT

So we arent playing the game anymore?

What are you trying to say?

Ohhhhh, you had a statist ask you these kinds of questions right? Nd you fell into the trap?

Re: Let's play a game.

Luminar — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:42:10 GMT

Thanks for helping me deal with some smartass statists (even if you weren't aware you were).

Re: Let's play a game.

Anenome — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:56:26 GMT

Aristippus:

What is required before you owe property tax?

An institution of aggression.

Checkmate, lmao ^_^

Re: Let's play a game.

Michael J Green — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:30:22 GMT

Ownership of real estate just is. Of course, since the owner... owns it, that owner has the liberty to also relinquish his claim. The owner must also make some active effort to maintain his claim. You can use those two conditions to say that the owner chooses to hold the real estate, but the word voluntary doesn't really make sense.

You can verify an owner's claim by observing or consulting the appropriate parties.

Re: Let's play a game.

Malachi — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:17:26 GMT

"voluntary" can mean several things.

Re: Let's play a game.

Aristippus — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:16:30 GMT

Using undefined terms is the key tactic of the Socratic trap. What do you mean by ownership?

Re: Let's play a game.

Kelvin Silva — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:16:23 GMT

Voluntary- Agreement between 2 parties; no coercion involved. As such, if the government lays a tax on me, and i do not agree to it, it is not voluntary.

Ownership- You can manipulate the piece of property, and deny others from manipulating it.

Owning a piece of property is voluntary.

You can 1. Buy from someone else

2. Discover a piece of land and employ your work to maintain and claim it.

Paying a tax is not voluntary for it supposes that the government has a right to take a piece of property that which you rightfully claimed.

If paying the tax was voluntary, it would not be called a tax. It would be merely a contractual agreement between 2 parties to pay an x aggreeable sum.

Tell me this.

If the government has every right to tax someone, how do we know that the government owns this piece of land? Is government property legitimate?

Re: Let's play a game.

Luminar — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:14:23 GMT

Is there a term that you do not understand? I thought the questions were easy enough.

Re: Let's play a game.

Andrew Cain — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:10:22 GMT

'"Time to define your terms Luminar."

No no! I want to watch him walk into the "well owning property is voluntary therefore paying the tax for it is therefore voluntary or apart of that voluntary action, therefore taxation is voluntary"

Re: Let's play a game.

Malachi — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:09:02 GMT

Yes its voluntary. Owing to the fact that ownership is a social relation, the only way for you to find out is to ask the right people.

Re: Let's play a game.

Aristippus — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:07:39 GMT

Time to define your terms Luminar.

Re: Let's play a game.

Luminar — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:06:23 GMT

They were selected because fee simple ownership of real estate is something only free men can have.

Is the ownership of real estate voluntary?

If you claim to own real estate, how do I verify your claim?