Economics Questions

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

shackleford — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 02:17:42 GMT

The economy would be better off. We're giving money to unproductive, useless people and organizations. We might as well flush the money down the toilet. "But they're consumers!" So what. They do not produce anything useful. You don't create a job just for the sake of a job. To paraphrase Peter Schiff, you want to create jobs that maximize labor productivity. All of those government employees will have to find real jobs in the private sector. They will have to worry about themselves and how to feed their families, not everyone else.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

Malachi — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 23:36:22 GMT

Remember hearing ~~staph infections~~ staff ncos talk about buttfucking without realizing it? As in "fuckin, you turds think you can have whatever fuckin low-reg you want, but, fuckin, I wont allow that shit"

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

David B — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:18:42 GMT

Cortes:

So, yes it's going to fall on the backs of the poor and the middle class, in that they will suffer the most.

How? I don't think there's any need to make that assertion.

Doesn't most of the welfare state support the rich? Wouldn't it free the economy to encourage more efficient development of charity groups and networks promoting finance and sound investment for the poor? Wouldn't it relieve the massive tax burden and the regulatory ceiling in the job market that keeps the poor from prospering?

The more I read stuff here the more I see a sound case to be made: that the poor and working class would be the best off, yet few writers here really take advantage of whats in their arguments to fully realize it.

Cortes, I think we blithely run past true statements and allow them to be used as refutations instead of supporting us as they should. We concede the moral high ground when we should not.

Accumulated wealth, regardless of the form it takes, can, in lean times, be used as a buffer to get one through to the next period of growth and expansion. During these lean times, the only way to make it through is to consume the stored up wealth, while the underlying causes correct themselves. We're all forced to make hard decisions about consumption, and rightly so. A poor man, a homeless man, will be at the mercy of those who have accumulated wealth. The three options are : make money by selling labor, get direct support through voluntary donations or charity, or steal wealth from others.

Nothing changes those facts. If it is a lean time, and a man has no savings, those are the options.

Instead we must come behind and demonstrate how the social ecosystem encouraged people to not save and to instead go into debt to consume. How the credit expansion and inflation encouraged malinvestment that must be reallocated in order to get the global economy into a healthy productive state. How specific interventions simply medicate the patient without curing the root cause. How those solutions basically allow the wealthy to temporarily avoid the losses inherent in the malinvestment, or to shift those losses onto the poorer members of society, further enlarging that segment.

Of course the poor will feel the burden the most. Dammit, they already are, and that population is growing every day. The question is how long must this go on? How long before we perform the corrective surgery?

The longer we engage in this capital destroying pseudo charity called wealth redistribution, the closer we get to the day these state apparatuses actually collapse and go bankrupt under the weight of their failed policies and interventions. On that day we will face massive epidemics of famine, crime, death, and disease. It will take decades if not a century to recover.

That's the story that needs to be told. Not, the poor will be ok, if we just get government out of the way. They're not ok now, and it's going to either get worse rapidly or get worse slowly, and then get worse(much worse) just as rapidly. If we suffer the correction now, most of the poor and disadvantaged will survive right now. If we wait for massive government failure, the resulting correction will be much worse and far more deadly. The poor will grow and grow as long as government stays in the way, and the end result will be an almost total implosion of global society as we know it. A poor man looking for bread and water, and some basic medicine for his starving dying children, doesn't want to hear that government is making things worse. He needs someone to save the lives of his children.

Sadly, the great thing about this interconnected world is that with things the way they are, some simple secession and deregulation political memes could rapidly reshape the entire socio-political ecosystem. It should be damn near impossible for micro-authoritarian regimes to survive and thrive in such a world. Part of me wonders if what we aren't seeing is the beginning of the end of large scale social democracies. Our "national" identities are becoming fractured, throught the growth of social media. We're realigning ourselves around causes and ideologies across borders.

So, can we get through the death throes of these state entities without a global catastrophic armageddon?

Please excuse my diatribe. My frustration is not with you Cortes. I'm becoming a bit agitated at the sheer ignorant depravity of modern political discussion.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

David B — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:11:32 GMT

Being a former Marine myself, I find it odd that a high percentage of Fortune 500 CEOs are not only ex-military but the largest represented group is the Marine Corps. Regardless of the failings of the Marine Corps itself, I think it's success is due to the type of mind and individual that it attracts. If you ask for the toughest, baddest, smartest, strong-willed, stubborn, etc. You get 'em.

I find it reassuring that we seem to have shown up here as well! :) We're still the same stubborn self-directed strong-willed badasses we thought we were when we went in, we've just seen the man behind the curtain. I find it refreshing that in the corps though there is an esprit de corps, a social/collectivist style "band of brothers" mentality, it's built off of a core individualist concept. "Every Marine is a rifleman first." You have a personal obligation to be highly skilled, highly motivated, highly trained in basic combat skills and in your specific profession. Not only don't you leave a man behind, you get your ass kicked if you're a buddy fucker! Leadership training focused on the dual responsibility of leadership, both to the missions before you and to the men upon which that missions success depended.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

grant.w.underwood — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 02:21:52 GMT

you mean like having a 5 oclock shadow at 5 oclock? i mean 1700. or not asking permission to purchase anything over 100$? or not picking up a piece of trash 100 yards away that you didnt see? or getting a haircut on a saturday and not on sunday? or growing a mustache to close to the regulation limit? or having dusty air vents? or the organization of my barracks room furniture is too personalized? or wearing proper civilian attire, but some dumbass that hasnt looked at the regs in 20 years deems it as unacceptable? or using the bathroom without telling every single person in the chain of command? ya its a blast.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

Malachi — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 01:29:45 GMT

Ron Paul cuts would have been the most vicious brutal cuts the world has ever seen. And they were to the epa, food stamps, medicaid, department of education a whole bunch of shit that is completely crazy to cut. 1 trillion of cuts in 1 year is record breaking austerity for any country that ever was on earth Ron Paul was gonna put Wallstreets depression on the backs of the poor and Middle class. I'm not making that up either."

vicious and brutal are compliments. "Completely crazy" ask him how. Ask him why record breaking debt is ok but record breaking cuts arent. Ask him if wall street supported ron paul or mitt romney.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

grant.w.underwood — Thu, 13 Sep 2012 01:08:19 GMT

malachi - lol. exact conversation everyone has everytime they goto the armory. Were you in? except i always got zero four fuckin thirty to take accountability. So be there 15 min prior.

Aye, Aye Gunny.

Gunny- Sgt they are yours.

Sgt. - so gunny wants us there at zero four fifteen. be there at 15 min prior. Cpls they are yours.

Cpl - shut the hell up. if sgt wants us there at zero four we will be there. Check? PFC Smuckatelly, what time we got to be there? Hell no devil dog. 15 min prior right? i will be holding accountability at fuckin 0345. if your ass is late im gonna run your ass till that armory opens. Tracking? LCpls they are yours.

LCpl - uhh hey guys. I dont want to be an ass, but we need to not let down our Cpls. So as your senior LCpl im going ask that you be there 15 min prior. We dont want the Cpls messing with us. So everyone see you at 0330?

PFC NJP - Fuck you bitch. You are all retarded. OUT

________

The Corps is the most efficient though.

All the other branches. conversation:

E1-E7 - uhh what do we do? Lets just hang out here until SajMaj passes us word. Why run around doing stuff that we dont have to. They dont pay us overtime. Fire up the X-box - CALL OF DUTY TOURNEY!!!

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

Aristippus — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:59:48 GMT

How?

I'm pretty sure he only meant that in the immediate term.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

Cortes — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:53:05 GMT

So, yes it's going to fall on the backs of the poor and the middle class, in that they will suffer the most.

How? I don't think there's any need to make that assertion.

Doesn't most of the welfare state support the rich? Wouldn't it free the economy to encourage more efficient development of charity groups and networks promoting finance and sound investment for the poor? Wouldn't it relieve the massive tax burden and the regulatory ceiling in the job market that keeps the poor from prospering?

The more I read stuff here the more I see a sound case to be made: that the poor and working class would be the best off, yet few writers here really take advantage of whats in their arguments to fully realize it.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

Malachi — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:39:22 GMT

The marines CANNOT be more time efficient than other branches, as in "fuckin, reveille is at zero-five-thirty, so guess what time we are gonna be at the ramp? Thats right, zero-fuckin-five-thirty so we can draw weapons and get comm and get our asses on the road. (ssgt sees someones eyes roll) what the fuck is your problem?" "hey stasaw, are the armorers gonna be here at five-thirty?" "thats zero-five-thirty, numnuts. And if the fuckin armorers arent there, then we will get radios and then draw weapons, so quit trying to do my job, ok shithead?" "stasaw, I'm pretty sure that comm has pt at-" "SHUT THE FUCK UP BOOT! No they fuckin dont because stasaw emailed those bitches not five minutes before I came in here to give word to you bitches. So enough with the questions, its 1745 so get the fuck out of my sight before you idiots miss chow and I have to hear about that tomorrow. Dismissed."

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

grant.w.underwood — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:59:49 GMT

"any of Thomas Sowell's three questions. See here."

thats funny, how he got away from being a Marxist is exactly how i stopped being a statist. When i saw just how inefficient the Marine Corps was i couldnt take it anymore. A Marine Corps motto (not THE motto just a motto) is 'we do more with less'. What amazes me is the people that say that line the most are the ones that do the least, from daily naps at their desk, making 30 minute long head calls, going to sickbay on a weekly basis, going on light duty so they dont have to run, getting knocked up so they dont have to deploy, order somebody else to do it, constant griping about their workload, complaining about how they should be promoted, ect ect ect. i still believe the Corps is the most efficient branch of the military, but compared to what? Compared to the most inefficient branches of government? UGH! so glad im out now, and i will never have to listen to another brain dead Staff NCO throw out jargon that they heard some other retard say one time. Or witness a SNCO throw another 18 year old kid under the bus because they are too worthless to lead a flock of sheep.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

David B — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:47:55 GMT

So, I guess the response to your original question "I need help from an Economic Genius", was "Become an Economic Genius."

My dad used to tell me, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king. If people spout this stuff off even a rudimentary sound understanding of economics would allow you to pick apart significant fallacies in his assumptions and assertions.

I think it would be helpful to understand how wealth is created, if you get that first, then the rest of this falls into place. Wealth is created by converting natural resources through the application of labor into goods and services that men then consume to satisfy their needs and wants. These needs and wants are referred to as ends economically.

Much of what he said is true. They would be the biggest cuts the world has ever seen, barring those from a total collapse of government. They would have eventually included not just the EPA, Food stampls, welfare, medicaid, social security, Departments of Educaion, Energy, Agriculture, etc., but many others. Eventually. $1trillion in cuts would be more than we've ever seen a country do. It would in fact be austerity.

The only part that is misunderstood is the last one, that Ron Paul would create a depression which would fall on the backs of the poor and middle class.

The depression is already happening. Economics tells us that regardless of how the depression occurs it's going to cause the highest level of fear, starvation, austerity, etc. on the poor in our society and on the middle class. No amount of welfare can fix that. The fix is increases in production and efficiency such that goods and services become cheaper and work opportunities grow.

Currently fear and uncertainty are causing those who have wealth to stock up and hold on. They won't invest in production for a variety of reasons, including uncertainty, ridiculously low interest rates, sovereign debt crises, political instability, whimsical interference in the market by government regulation, etc. The solution is to get government out of the regulation business and put it back in the hands of civil courts.

Production will increase the wealth, and increases in wealth mean cheaper goods and services and higher labor wages (relative to the cost of living). Increased production requires capital investment, these are necessarily longterm investments (factories, roads, equipment, construction, etc.) and the more unstable and uncertain the political and economic environment the more conservative those who have amassed wealth will be. Not only is the US currently scary, but around the globe it's becoming difficult to find a stable safe place to invest and produce wealth.

So, yes it's going to fall on the backs of the poor and the middle class, in that they will suffer the most. That's the price of not having a lot of saved wealth. Forcibly transferring that wealth simply destroys more wealth. Investing it and producing more goods and services will expand the opportunities for the poorer members of society.

So the proper response is, do you want 20-30 years of depression, or a sharp severe recession and rapid recovery? Removing the roadblocks to investment, production and profit is the rapid recovery route. It's the equivalent of having a tooth pulled instead in one sitting instead of taking advil for months until the tooth completely dies and falls out. It's simple and obvious, if you become your own economic genius.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

DD5 — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:36:23 GMT

s burgess:
ask him if it moral for one generation to spend money of the next generation .....

That would be a neat trick. To spend the money of people who do not exist.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

Wheylous — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:14:29 GMT

Just ask him for sources.

Re: Need help from an economic GENIUS!!!

No2statism — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:47:17 GMT

Dr. Paul was going to cut more than 15% of the military... It was 30% in the first year IIRC.