General

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:16:44 GMT

Well they certainly shouldn't do it just because we think they ought to. They should do it because it is convincing to them, and if they truly understand it, then they will understand that it is the right way to go.

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

Bert — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:11:16 GMT

Why should they care, what drive do they have to do what someone in another country suggests to them? We may see these goals as goals, but what purpose is it to them, why would they care what we think they ought to do?

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 16:53:43 GMT

What do you mean?

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

Bert — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 16:43:40 GMT

Why should they care?

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 23:16:01 GMT

Oh, I see. It actually sounds like a really worthwhile fundraising project. At the very least we would convert some open-minded people.

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

Anarcho-libertarian — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 23:13:02 GMT

You mean how would we convince them that they just need to follow Rose's and/or Hoppe's advice? I would probably print out a one page, double-sided intro to include with each book. In the intro I would tell them why we are sending this book and put in things like the above quotes.

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 23:02:41 GMT

I see. So how would we go about convincing the people there?

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

Anarcho-libertarian — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 23:01:19 GMT

SkepticalMetal:

Yes but how would they go about implementing it? Revolution?

They are a democratic republic. So they could either ignore it as Larken Rose explains, or vote it in as Hoppe explains, or a mixture of both:

Larken Rose: "States are more vulnerable than people think. They can collapse in an instant—when consent is withdrawn. The extortion racket could NOT be continued by brute force alone. Yes, they have armed thugs to squash the occasional rebel--and practicing self-preservation is perfectly reasonable. But MOST people pay up because they imagine themselves to have a moral obligation to do so. If the majority stopped imagining that, no amount of thuggery would keep the extortion racket alive."

To see an illustration of this, watch Rose's video The Tiny Dot:

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Hans-Hermann Hoppe, What Must Be Done:

"...The third basic insight is that a democratic protection monopoly in particular must be rejected as a moral and economic perversity. Majority rule and private property protection are incompatible. The idea of democracy must be ridiculed: it is nothing else but mob rule parading as justice. To be labeled a democrat must be considered the worst of all possible compliments! This does not mean that one may not participate in democratic policies; I will come to that a little bit later.

But one must use democratic means only for defensive purposes; that is, one may use an antidemocratic platform to be elected by an antidemocratic constituency to implement antidemocratic - that is, anti-egalitarian and pro-private property - policies."

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:38:06 GMT

Yes but how would they go about implementing it? Revolution?

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

Anarcho-libertarian — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:36:26 GMT

SkepticalMetal:

How would we impliment it? And would it be Friedmanite or Rothbardian?

The people of San Marino would implement it. I don't know what they would choose.

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:25:05 GMT

How would we impliment it? And would it be Friedmanite or Rothbardian?

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

idol — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 19:50:30 GMT

Even if Italy tries to control San Marino, if they actually become an AnCap country even for a day it would mean incredible progress and worldwide attention to the AnCap movement. If businesses start coming in and the economy flourishes, leading to an Italian retaliation, you would still have living proof that anarcho-capitalism worked.

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

Merlin — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 10:30:04 GMT

I am willing to bet money that Italy would find a pretext to station some ‘anti-money laundering task force” of Carabinieri even if San Marino lowered its VAT tax rate below that of Italy (attracting many Italian businesses), let alone if it provided a fully free society with decent money. Monaco is in the same situation vis-à-vis France, Guernsey with the UK and so on. Of the existing city-states, only Singapore is capable of defending itself against most comers, and that is the place I could expect to move the fastest in the right direction.

I do not mean to strike down you proposal, just to clarify what I imagine would be the issues.

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

Anarcho-libertarian — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 10:23:46 GMT

^If they aren't ripe for change now, there is the possibility that their society could get swept up in some global depression or whatever down the road, at which point they wont be so content and will want change. But even if they are always content, I don't think one can say it's impossible because (1) this has never been tried before. (2) They all have a sense of justice and they are content because no one has told them how having a State is unjust. They have never even heard of a real alternative. (3) If I can find an example of one single person who was content with his society and government before becoming an anarcho-capitalist, and I'm pretty sure I can, then there is no reason why that example can't be multiplied.

What do you think Italy might do if San Marino becomes AnCap?

Re: What If We Turned San Marino Into AnCapistan?

Merlin — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 09:55:19 GMT

Aside from the implicit threat of violence from Italy under which defenseless San Marino always lives under, I am afraid that getting people who are very content with their society and government to radically change it would be very, very difficult. Indeed impossible for an outsider.