General

Re: Good libertarian video games

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 04:04:12 GMT

Generally made irrelevant when Imran Zakhaev's main reasons for the "Ultranationalist" movement (or whatever the hell it was) was Western imperialism. When looked upon from this standpoint, aswell as citing the atrocities caused by the Ultranationalists, all of the conflict in Call of Duty can be linked to the standard aggressive nature of the state. Like I said though, by saying this I am just utilizing my privelage to construe the storyline in a way that I find acceptable - I really don't think the producers had libertarianism (or even anti-statism to the lowest degree) in mind when they were forging the game.

Re: Good libertarian video games

Neodoxy — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 04:00:03 GMT

That's a very libertarain/non-interventionist view of events, and I don't think there was really much emphasis on blowback. It's easy to argue that if the government had a greater military buildup and greater presence in other countries to begin with it would have been able to defend America/prevent the rise of ultra-nationalism in Russia more thoroughly.

Re: Good libertarian video games

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 03:33:01 GMT

I don't know about that. Remember General Shepherd? Remember how it portrayed the mess that occurs as blowback to events caused by government?

Like I said, you can interpret it either way, it's all in how you look at it.

Re: Good libertarian video games

Neodoxy — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 03:31:01 GMT

"Call of Duty for example. Very fun (Call of Duty 4 especially) yet one could easily interpret it has having statist undertones."

Lol you kidding me? MW2 & 3 were neo-con wetdreams/nightmares.It was practically screaming at the player to support military buildup and foreign intervention.

Re: Good libertarian video games

SkepticalMetal — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 03:27:01 GMT

I want to reanimate this thread being that I hold video games to be the new emerging "film." First-person shooters, regardless of what Roger Ebert thinks, are indeed art, and I think it would be a mistake to disregard them by referring to them as anything else other than that.

Unfortunately there are indeed a lot of statist games - Call of Duty for example. Very fun (Call of Duty 4 especially) yet one could easily interpret it has having statist undertones. You could also interpret it the other way due to it's allowance for the examination of government corruption, but I really don't think they had "libertarianism" in mind when making it.

Sadly enough, my favorite game series out there, Halo, is pretty statist. You're fighting for the "United Nations Space Command," the pretty-much totalitarian "representative democracy" state, spanning across various Solar Systems. Luckily enough, Bungie (and now 343 Industries) makes you feel, for the most part, like you're fighting for "humanity" more than anything else, although they do include many elements of military pride and what not. The whole main character, Master Chief, who is the hero, was abducted as a small child by the UNSC in order to fight the over-taxed "Insurrectionists." He's the guy who ends up saving humanity.

So like any other kind of media category, I think it's important that some libertarian opposition to the left is included.

Re: Good libertarian video games

Malachi — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 00:02:59 GMT

John Ess:
I think Mario Bros. is like Hans Hermann-Hoppe: The Game.

Strong emphasis on gold, non-egalitarianism and natural elitism (lots of stomping on little goombas and turtles), individual accomplishment, heterosexual relationships, and monarchs. No diversity; except among the hapless baddies. Plus low time preferences: none of that gold is ever spent on anything. There is no police in the game: just mario entering the market to destroy Bowser's evil monopoly over women-stealing.

I would like to see more argumentation ethics in a future game, though. Maybe you could argue that by stealing the princess, Bowser seals his fate by putting forward a theory about how one acquires ownership of the princess. Namely that might makes right. Yeah.

Haha lol

Re: Good libertarian video games

allanwissen — Mon, 06 Aug 2012 23:51:16 GMT

I think any video game that gives you free choice to do as you desire is basically Libertarian in a way... yet not in a way too.... depending on where you're looking at the theme from.

Skyrim's Stormcloaks stood up for Libertarian ideas one you get past all the bullshit about religion that drove most of them... yet even that bullshit about religion actually is quite Libertarian too.. they were oppressed by people who said they couldn't worship Talos.

Also, the Nordic desire for Self determination with their rulers can be considered Libertarian... especially from a Minarchist perspective, but not from an Anarcho-Capitalism perspective... as they wnated a small goverment ran by Jarls and the High King in a way that is similar to a republic....yet not really quite a republic yet.

This is just my thinking on it though..don't want to speak for Bethseda, but that is what I see....

Re: Good libertarian video games

gabriel.syme — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 06:53:00 GMT

I think Mario Bros. is like Hans Hermann-Hoppe: The Game.

Strong emphasis on gold, non-egalitarianism and natural elitism (lots of stomping on little goombas and turtles), individual accomplishment, heterosexual relationships, and monarchs. No diversity; except among the hapless baddies. Plus low time preferences: none of that gold is ever spent on anything. There is no police in the game: just mario entering the market to destroy Bowser's evil monopoly over women-stealing.

I would like to see more argumentation ethics in a future game, though. Maybe you could argue that by stealing the princess, Bowser seals his fate by putting forward a theory about how one acquires ownership of the princess. Namely that might makes right. Yeah.

Hahahaha. You, sir, have won the thread.

Mario Bros. is also an illustration of the tensions that flare due to forced integration of koopas with plumbers.

Re: Good libertarian video games

Brian LaSorsa — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 06:50:31 GMT

Super Mario Brothers. Mario/Luigi are libertarians. Bowser and his paratroopas are the state. The Princess represents freedom.

Re: Good libertarian video games

hugolp — Sat, 10 Jul 2010 06:34:38 GMT

- "Assassin's Creed" and even more "Assassin's Creed 2".

Check in "Assassin's Creed 2" the glyph part.

Re: Good libertarian video games

ricarpe — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 19:18:33 GMT

@The Late Andre Ryan:

I'll agree that there is a nationalist tone to the game, which is especially present when playing on a player versus player server. It would be more interesting if there were a means of declaring oneself neutral in the game, having no affliliation with either faction (Alliance or Horde).

@James:

Very true.

@ All:

How about Eve Online? There's still the nationalism, but it's not mandatory as one can earn a positive reputation with whichever in-game empire they choose to do so with.

Re: Good libertarian video games

John Ess — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:59:14 GMT

I think Mario Bros. is like Hans Hermann-Hoppe: The Game.

Strong emphasis on gold, non-egalitarianism and natural elitism (lots of stomping on little goombas and turtles), individual accomplishment, heterosexual relationships, and monarchs. No diversity; except among the hapless baddies. Plus low time preferences: none of that gold is ever spent on anything. There is no police in the game: just mario entering the market to destroy Bowser's evil monopoly over women-stealing.

I would like to see more argumentation ethics in a future game, though. Maybe you could argue that by stealing the princess, Bowser seals his fate by putting forward a theory about how one acquires ownership of the princess. Namely that might makes right. Yeah.

Re: Good libertarian video games

SirThinkALot — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:54:14 GMT

FF7 is an example of how corporations can rule the world if GOVERNMENT doesn't get involved.

Sadly some statists probably will see it that way. But really when it comes down to it, Shinra doesnt act like any real corporation, but like a Facist state.

I also forgot to add: Theres also an interesting(if extremely subdle) example of the law of unintentended consequences: Shinra's attempt to create a super soldier resulted in their 'creation' going on a rampage, killing their president and attempting to destroy the world...talk about blowback...

Re: Good libertarian video games

James — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:52:38 GMT

WoW is actually quite funny. Fans of the game do have a sort of tribal bias along alliance/horde lines, but it's not as though anyone takes the conflict very seriously in the actual gameplay.

It's typical for a noob to run around screaming, "ZOMG! TEH HORDE IS ATTACKING THE CITY!" Everyone just shrugs, and someone tells him that they do it every Thursday morning, it's nothing to worry about, and that the alliance XP-run is on a Friday. :p

Re: Good libertarian video games

The Late Andrew Ryan — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:39:55 GMT

"1. It demonstrates the law of association as the main plot device (rinoa and squall fall in love)"

... I'm sorry but I really don't consider that love is really an example of the law of association unless I misunderstand you here... And there's thousands of non libertarian stuff which has love anyway. But I agree with the rest of your reasons

"For an MMO, I would have to go with World of Warcraft."

World of warcraft is inherently nationalistic because of the different sides. You cannot effectivly be on alliance and cooperate with the horde and vice versa... If it weren't for that though you'd be correct, but a game where in the end everyone wants to go to a foreign country and slaughter enemy civilians doesn't seem very libertarian to me... More like some odd sort of free market hyper nationalism