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Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

DD5 — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 14:45:38 GMT

excel:
And Paul's farewell address seems to echo that line of reasoning.

No it does not. Ron Paul never ever claimed or even hinted that the Constitution has no authority. I value Ron Paul's contribution to the liberty movement but if people will not critizise Ron Paul for his statist political positions, then this means that the liberty movement cannot evolve any further. It revolves around one man and this is very troubling.

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

Jack Roberts — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:00:23 GMT

Was an awesome speech and it is sad to see the end of his political career. :(

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

excel — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 10:30:32 GMT

Has he said that in his farewell speech?

He's said it in pretty much all his presidential debates and interviews when asked what the government should do.

If you've read Spooner, and I believe you have from your comment, then you should know that the argument is: The Constituion has no authority! Not, the Constition is a good place to start because it limits government. It doesn't in fact and on the contrary, it gives government almost a free hand in tyranny. Spooner made it quite clear, which is why he's attacking its authority in the first place.

And Paul's farewell address seems to echo that line of reasoning. Ie, the govenment hasn't been held back by the constitution because the constitution is incapable of doing so, and the only way it COULD have been held back was by the people, and the people have been too complacent.

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

DD5 — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:51:33 GMT

fountainhead:

@DD5

In his defense, I believe he usually says that the Constitution would be a "good place to start."

Has he said that in his farewell speech?

If you've read Spooner, and I believe you have from your comment, then you should know that the argument is: The Constituion has no authority! Not, the Constition is a good place to start because it limits government. It doesn't in fact and on the contrary, it gives government almost a free hand in tyranny. Spooner made it quite clear, which is why he's attacking its authority in the first place.

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

Wheylous — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:30:55 GMT

^ Yeah, this

QC - some people are just like that :P

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

fountainhead — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:28:33 GMT

@DD5

In his defense, I believe he usually says that the Constitution would be a "good place to start."

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

DD5 — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:09:18 GMT

Wheylous:

HE JUST USED THE SPOONER ARGUMENT!!!!!!!!!!

.....and contradicted Spooner (and himself) countlessly again and agian when advocating to follow the Consitution.

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

QuisCustodiet — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 13:23:55 GMT

@Wheylous

Fair enough. Yeah, there's no doubt he sends people in that direction. And he has made it easier for a lot of people to be converted "all the way" later. It just pains me to see anarchists accusing him of not sharing his true beliefs. What an awful thing to say about one of the most honest congressmen in history.

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

grant.w.underwood — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 04:41:01 GMT

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

Wheylous — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 02:21:16 GMT

QC - the definition of government could be debated. Either way, he's most certainly at least a minarchist. And if he doesn't want to say he's an anarchist, he certainly points any listeners in that direction. If a young kid hears the speech and decides all initiation of aggression is bad, if he learns in a year or so that defense must also be aggressive due to taxation, he will already have this basis of the NAP and convert more easily. I can imagine this being RP's parting gift to the libertarian movement.

Anyway, even if he is just a minarchist - DUDE! There's a minarchist in the government! Not for long, but he's there.

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

Clayton — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 00:34:41 GMT

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Clayton -

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

SkepticalMetal — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 00:07:20 GMT

Well...in Revolutionary Catalonia, there were anarchist politicians...so perhaps he is indeed an anarcho-capitalist who just isn't an Agorist (in other words, he believes in using politics to minimize and ultimately abolish the state).

Come on Ron, you can't hang around Rothbard and Rockwell all of those years and not be one.

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

QuisCustodiet — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 00:03:49 GMT

Yeah, he's against the government initiating violence. It doesn't mean he thinks that the government's existence is initiation of force. The government can exist and only do defensive things. He gives several (though flawed) examples of this (eg. America before 1913).

And people shouldn't blow Dr. Paul's mentioning of "voluntarism" out of proportion. It's not code for anarchy. Why would he talk about the proper role of government and at the same time advocate statelessness? Libertarians shouldn't be the ones distorting history. Paul was not an anarchist.

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

Fephisto — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 22:52:16 GMT

Mother of god...Conza was right...

Re: Ron Paul's Farewell Speech live. Watch now!

Willy Truth — Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:57:32 GMT

Lovely.