Current Events

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

cab21 — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 07:45:29 GMT

when has the usa ever been "free"

george washington did not free his slaves and hired slaves paying the owners, so where does the freedom of america start?

how would a romney election or even a gary johnson or ron paul have meant freedom for america? maybe at most get back to a constitution that does not support freedom well at all.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

shackleford — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 05:45:10 GMT

cab21:

what exactly do you think the usa should look like? seems you over romanticize the usa?

Free.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

cab21 — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 03:49:15 GMT

what exactly do you think the usa should look like? seems you over romanticize the usa?

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

shackleford — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 03:35:55 GMT

Neodoxy:

I thought the U.S was finished?

Well, I've outlined the only possible way to even begin to rectify the situation. However, it's highly improbable. I'm not optimistic at all. I'm going to start planning for the collapse.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

Neodoxy — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 03:29:18 GMT

I thought the U.S was finished?

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

shackleford — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 03:24:26 GMT

I hate to say it, but the only way we'll ever get to some semblance of an actual limited goverment and free market is for libertarians of all stripes to takeover the Republican Party. There's no other way around it. Swell the Party, educate the masses like Ron Paul did, and be in a position to effect meaningful change. We're just going to have to suck it up and knock out the neocons from power. Also, we'll have to be extremely patient in convincing social conservatives that it just doesn't matter.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

Aristippus — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 02:01:45 GMT

Libertarianism is out there.

I think you'll find that barely anyone knows anything about libertarianism, and most of those who do only know about it from those who oppose it and who present its positions as a strawman. But I agree that it could be the case that most people can't be rationally educated to support it. That's not what I was talking about.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

cab21 — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 01:58:46 GMT

if there is a libertarian party, but there also libertarian anarchists, how does that work? aren't the anarchist still calling the minarchists people that want to steal?

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

Andrew Cain — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 01:36:29 GMT

So back to an earlier comment before this topic got completely derailed. I just think it wrong to presume that people can be "educated" into libertarianism. People have to choose to be apart of it. Libertarianism is out there. It is available for mass consumption. It is not a choice that every individual is going to make.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

Andris Birkmanis — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 21:34:24 GMT

Out of the Scandinavian countries, it looks like Norway has the lowest overall tax rate.

Probably their government makes enough money on Statoil :)

Money laundering, you know - no need to steal (much) if you invested previously stolen.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

shackleford — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 21:22:16 GMT

Andris Birkmanis:

The best I have is this:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STAT-12-77_en.htm
Note that AFAIK the rate in Sweden vary depending on whether you are single, how many kids you have, etc., but if you do not care about specific kind of person, the overall trend is there.

Out of the Scandinavian countries, it looks like Norway has the lowest overall tax rate.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

Andris Birkmanis — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 21:07:02 GMT

The best I have is this:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STAT-12-77_en.htm
Note that AFAIK the rate in Sweden vary depending on whether you are single, how many kids you have, etc., but if you do not care about specific kind of person, the overall trend is there.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

shackleford — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 21:02:35 GMT

Andris Birkmanis:

What are the effective tax rates for the individual?

Do you mean a mean individual? Or a median one? Or a midhinge? What "the" individual?

Surprise me.

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

Andris Birkmanis — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 21:01:51 GMT

What are the effective tax rates for the individual?

Do you mean a mean individual? Or a median one? Or a midhinge? What "the" individual?

Re: Sorry, guys, the U.S. is finished

shackleford — Thu, 08 Nov 2012 20:59:17 GMT

Andris Birkmanis:

If you trust this source, the taxes peaked, and are falling.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/tax-revenue-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/norway/tax-revenue-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/finland/tax-revenue-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

I am a bit surprised by low figures, I would have guessed they should be ~50%.

Why do I care about taxes as a percent of GDP? I don't. What are the effective tax rates for the individual?