Current Events

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

CrazyCoot — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:35:20 GMT

""I'm not so sure about that. His senate run sputtered a bit, and I think on the national stage we could do better. Peter can be smarmy and cynical sometimes, and often talks quickly and get agitated. All fine for a commentator and financial analyst, but not great material for Presidential debates."

To be fair to Schiff he lost in Connecticut, so I wouldn't hold it against him. Blandness and moderation rules here in terms of politics.

Paul put ideas out in the public arena and convinced a lot of folks, myself included.

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

Aristophanes — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 06:09:03 GMT

Only infowars can take something that isn't news and make a segment about it as if it were. And they have really stepped up the professional image. All they need to do is change their name so people do not read it and think, "What?"

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

John James — Tue, 18 Sep 2012 06:01:21 GMT

Ron Paul For Texas Governor!

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Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

Vanitas Nomen — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:53:25 GMT

You are right sir, it IS the RP thread, so here is my .02

I sure hope the ideas espoused by RP are not forgotten by this time next year.
I sure hope I continue to see more and more friends embrace the idea of liberty, however I do hope they don't take a 'left' on money(as I have seen some friends do) but stay 'right' concerning economics by 'educating' themselves, however they can.

I've noticed the three kinds of responses from the Liberty message that has taken over my Facebook since 2011:

1. Right on!

2. You're racist!

3. Crickets because it's 'over my head'(as described by a few friends who have commented on seeing my posts by not responding to them directly).

I too would like to know RP's personal response...

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

Aristophanes — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:44:04 GMT

Would it have been considered political suicide by the populists to be an abolitionist in 1776?

It was still political suicide for Henry Clay...

I thought this was the "RON PAUL LEGACY" thread...the Jefferson stuff just comes out of nowhere (pretends like he doesn't know exactly why...).

I am still having a tough time reading Ron Paul's actual perspective of all of this. He has been so quiet and the people around him so blatant...

Benton, Tate, and Rand all kind of threw Ron under the bus for their own benefit while claiming to be drawing the "liberty" movement to a place where it would "be relevant", i.e. the GOP. It is no wonder that Benton would think he has the moral high ground

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

John James — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:56:12 GMT

GOP's Ron Paul purge

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Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

Andrew Cain — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 06:04:11 GMT

It's like a telemundo drama. So many backstories are finally being blown open!

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

John James — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:44:42 GMT

Top 10 reasons to get your money back from Ron Paul Inc

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Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

Andrew Cain — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:00:19 GMT

Reviving this thread because of the Benton controversy. I am so glad I did not contribute to the Ron Paul campaign.

[View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ&feature=fvwrel]

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

Andrew Cain — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:46:17 GMT

Jefferson embrace freedom? Jefferson was a disgusting hypocrite who created the idea of the "Empire of Liberty." Did you think Woodrow Wilson came up with the idea of spreading democracy and American values by himself? A pox on Jefferson for giving us the empire we know today.

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

David B — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:37:30 GMT

Yeah, I tried to go back and edit....

Maybe if I'd paid more attention in class :)

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

Aristophanes — Fri, 31 Aug 2012 01:43:38 GMT

This is off topic of OP, but read through this...

A teacher of mine when I was young, was an alcoholic and got removed from teaching midway through my 4th grade year. But he will always be my favorite teacher. When I was bored and he still had to teach the class, and he couldn't respond directly to all of my questions, he'd pull me aside and get me to read through and encyclopedia, and right a little something about a topic I was interested in. Do I worship him? No, but I'm grateful for how he encouraged me to be curious, without trying to crush my spirit and my passion. Those are the kinds of men I hold in high esteem.

"Can anyone else spot the hilarious irony?"

I left a hint.

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

David B — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:23:17 GMT

Last point about hero worship.

Heroes are to me those who handle themselves with dignity and grace, who prod us and poke us to stand up look around and think. To embrace our personal power in our daily lives and especially in our intellectual life.

We should not worship, but I'll always hold a special place in my heart for every man who stood up and encouraged me to think for myself, and to embrace freedom.

We hold Thomas Jefferson and James Madison in high regard for their courage to fight those very battles. We hold them up as standards of independence and courage. They are the John Galt's in many ways of our society. Murray Rothbard, Mises, Hayek they are men who we should hold up not as perfect, or idols, but as examples of the type of men we can become with courage and dignity.

Ron Paul is such a man today. He deserves at minimum respect and honor for his courage, dedication, and tenacity in the face of what must have seemed like futility.

A teacher of mine when I was young, was an alcoholic and got removed from teaching midway through my 4th grade year. But he will always be my favorite teacher. When I was bored and he still had to teach the class, and he couldn't respond directly to all of my questions, he'd pull me aside and get me to read through and encyclopedia, and right a little something about a topic I was interested in. Do I worship him? No, but I'm grateful for how he encouraged me to be curious, without trying to crush my spirit and my passion. Those are the kinds of men I hold in high esteem.

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

David B — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:11:17 GMT

Lot of cool stuff here.

Some thoughts, not sure if it will resonate, I'm a bit Pollyanaish.

Hopefully one of the effects that comes from his campaign is that the followers (millions) will in small numbers grab onto the idea that, the individual members can make a difference. Ron Paul made a difference. I've found that there are a lot more people like me, and at minimum I try not to crush the seeds of libertarian thought, even if they're mired in minarchy or even fiscal conservativsm, but stil socially liberal. Any part of government that can be pushed back, frees us all.

I don't think the movement has died, though if the question is when did the campaign fail, other's have pointed out that there's no way Ron Paul thought he'd win. But I think he actually won more than he probably dreamed of both in 2k8 and in 2k12. The republican party had to actually go on the offensive this time, to push his message out. They had to change the platform to bring in some fiscal issues. There's also a clearly defined vacuum for strongly conservative fiscal policy, and they have an opportunity to step into it.

If they don't actually make any changes this next year or so, by the end of 2013 I think you'll see a much more vocal and angry mass starting to get active. That frightens me somewhat also. It gets even worse if the Fiscal Cliff is hit, the credit rating for the US drops and inflation rises dramatically, all very real possibilities. If that happens, I think you have an opportunity for a third party to come in and upset everything. Very rapidly. I believe a large portion (35-40%) is trying to shoehorn themselves into one party or the other. A truly libertarian platform has the potential to coalesce within a year or 2 if the Republican's gain power, don't make serious fiscal changes, and the economy drops like a rock. I'd lay this momentum at the feet of Ron Paul. Not alone, but as the tip of the spear. Perhaps one might call him the lightning rod, but he rests on top of a very deep and very sound foundation. d

Another point, I think we ought to remember Ron Paul is 77. I think he had to decide where to focus the remaining energy he had in this last year of his public service. And his has been service in the best possible way it could be. Late in 2011 and early in 2012 I recall there were some articles about Ron Paul being a bit exhausted and worn down by the whirlwind tour. I don't think we should underestimate the physical toll on and old man whose passion never waned, but whose body did its best. It may turn out to have been a wise choice to focus instead the energy of this last drive on the Fed Audit, while the chance existed.

Now in terms of the RNC's underhanded delegate battle, again I think it was a win, not in numbers of delegates, but in the fact that they had to actually fight Paul. Sometimes you win a battle and it costs you more than you win. I hope at minimum that the egregious behavior motivates some to become more active at the local level in fighting for freedom and fiscal conservatism in their local communities.

Someone mentioned the utter futility of fighting the expandning state. I agree that the results in these specific battles to curb government are most likely futile. But it takes courage to fight these battles. And like I said, the battles in and of themselves even when lost convert people.

I'm curious to see the outcome of the 2012 campaign. In 2k8 the roots of the Tea Party were laid in Paul's grassroots campaign. There are other reasons for it's rise, and I'm sure none of us here are fans of the warhawk and religious fervor that seems to be a part of the binding force for that movement, but there is a very strong fiscal responsibility tone to the Tea Party. Ron Paul should rightly be considered a huge part of that. But what's going to rise from 2k12? It would be interesting if we were to see a Tea Party analogue that also embraced civil liberties, were anti-drug war, pro-states rights, still fiscally conservative, but also Peace Loving "isolationists." I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine this might happen.

Finally, in terms of Ron Paul's love of constitutional government. I've read his works on Lew Rockwell.com. I don't buy it. I've always thought of the constitution as a line in the sand that he could point to as a rule of law which we'd abandoned. I always took his message as "Shouldn't we at least head back that way?" If Lew loved him, and the impression from Lew is that he does, I just can't believe Ron's not a Rothbardian ancap. Last point about his apparent love for constitutional government. I don't believe that Ron would ever publicly speak out against the document he's sword to protect and defend. And the line in the sand that he has, is sufficient to point the direction the country needs to go.

Anyway, I'm disappointed and a bit dismayed, but the youth are involved. I may not like Paul Ryan on some of his issues, but dammit he's my age... And his ideas in fiscal issues at least sound libertarian.

Re: Ron Paul's Legacy

Andrew Cain — Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:05:28 GMT

All you did was post the bill of rights Neo. Are you stating that these rights did not exist before the constitution?