Current Events

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

John James — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 23:14:34 GMT

That is awesome. Links directly to the Mises Daily article.

It's actually kind of funny to see how worked up they are. It's funny that at least some of them can recognize how dumb it makes them look, even though (as I pointed out earlier) all the other demands lists aren't much better. Just like screaming Bob said above, this is what happens when you have a protest and don't even really know what for.

It's also funny because they owners of the website are in such a tough spot, since they can't exactly delete nonsense like that without getting all sorts of backlash. "YOU'RE TRYING TO CENSOR US! YOU'RE ONE OF THEM!"

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

FascistSoup — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 21:59:33 GMT

Lol.

The OP's link now mentions Mises.org. The forums there are full of cool people though....... very open minded.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

Wheylous — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 20:17:36 GMT

That RP guy from the video has serious guts to go there and support capitalism. Praise to him.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

John James — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 04:32:57 GMT

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Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

Hard Rain — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 12:35:15 GMT

I love how in that ReasonTV clip, at around 5:14, the real man on the street speaks the truth: it's not gonna do shit and once the wind gets colder all the people will leave, but he's glad to be there because the police aren't harassing him for sleeping outside.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

EmperorNero — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 12:30:06 GMT

Praetyre:
What is this recent liberalization you speak of?

You know, globalization. That a third of the world isn't communist any more. And neoliberal reforms since the 1970's. The US has been slipping in the freedom score, but most countries (heritage.org/index/ranking) have been getting more free in recent years. Also, technology has made it much easier to compete, leading to a more capitalist world.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

Nielsio — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 12:15:22 GMT

Re, Clayton;

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

Praetyre — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 11:34:31 GMT

What is this recent liberalization you speak of?

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

EmperorNero — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:55:54 GMT

Praetyre:
You've taken the words of my mouth...

I don't think this is some spontaneous protest by a few economic ignoramuses. This is a predictable reactionary push against recent liberalization. Essentially, liberalization threatens incumbent elites, which is why they create a downturn to get the distressed masses to demand the statism back that protects the elites. These protesters are precisely playing into the plot of the elites.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

Praetyre — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:23:09 GMT

You've taken the words of my mouth... about 90% of the words I've ever had regarding protest groups outside of the Tea Party for the last few years. The only kinda sorta exception is those hacker groups, but my money is on them (especially Anonymous and Lulzsec) being collective pseudonyms for a variety of groups, mainly either disillusioned veterans of the pirate radio wars or hired cyber-hitmen for the Russian mob or Chinese intelligence services.

As always, Zombie delivers, and gives a fairly interesting analysis of the contradictions and various factions marching under the OWS banner. It's like Billionaires for Bush on steroids. Also, Che and FDR make cameos.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

EmperorNero — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 08:57:59 GMT

It is interesting that I agree with all of their goals, getting rid of the banker elite and such. They're just so misinformed that their energies are channeled in the wrong direction. In effect, they are useful idiots of the elite.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

John James — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 05:19:45 GMT

Clayton:
It's amazing to see how influential the Venus Project has become.

That's a big part of why I posted that video. Aside from the bum who said it would all be empty after one strong wind, and the guy who spoke after him that sounded like a Paul supporter, that whole video was a great collection of all the greatest problems with our populous. It really did seem like a good representation of what is out there.

Just like the Mises Daily outlined, there are people who have no idea why they're there (like the glasses girl), there's typical leftists (like the effeminate Obama supporter), there's typical really bad leftists (like the self-proclaimed socialist), there's ill-informed bastards who think they're in-the-know (like the Venus Project guy), there's idiot "enlightened" douchbags (like the jackass that pulled rank on the poor guy just trying to answer questions), and then there's the at least somewhat rational-sounding guy (like the Ron Paul supporter).

I swear the minute Mr. che guevara t-shirt said "resource-based economy" my head fell into a facepalm.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

Graham Wright — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 22:03:39 GMT

It's amazing to see how influential the Venus Project has become. It has no new ideas but it's a virulent cross-pollination of many of the most alluring and dangerous economic and social fallacies. Tom Woods or someone of his calibur needs to slap together a printable, 3- or 4-page PDF brochure that debunks or at least defuses the most dangerous ideas in the Venus Project (e.g. the one guy who said "we just need to get back to barter" like that's a good thing).

I'm thinking something more of a popular work... Scholarly works are inappropriate because the audience is just attuned enough to perceive there's something wrong with the current system but not mentally disciplined enough to follow long deductive arguments.

That's a great idea, but it would be tough. Last weekend I was debating a VP'er who left a comment on one of my videos. I was really trying to get inside his head and it's quite amazing how the fallacies all interlock. The most difficult thing would be knowing where to start.

If anyone wants to collaborate on this project though, I'd get involved.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

Autolykos — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:24:39 GMT

Well, it's hardly a homogeneous bunch out there. None of us (including you) ever said otherwise, of course.

Re: OccupyWallStreet.org's "Demands"

Eric080 — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 19:42:12 GMT

Robert Murphy did a Mises Daily on it, but I'm not sure if it was concise enough to bebunk it. On Youtube, they have the "Venus Project Challenge," where you have to debunk all 100+ points on the Venus Project FAQ before they even begin considering taking you seriously.