The Mises Community
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.
Forums
 »
Economics
 »
Political Theory
 »
Is the Draft Constitutional - read this madness

Thank you for your participation and interest in the Mises Community. This software platform has seen its day, however, and so is now closed. We are redoing our entire site, so look for some exciting developments by the end of the year. Thank you for your support of Austrian economics, liberty, and peace.

Is the Draft Constitutional - read this madness

rated by 0 users
This post has 15 Replies | 2 Followers

Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,984
Points 89,720
Reply
Wheylous Posted: Wed, Aug 22 2012 10:13 AM

Read the arguments for both sides:

http://debates.juggle.com/is-the-military-draft-constitutional

They completely sidestep the issue. However, I was especially appalled by the arguments for the "pro" side

I do believe that the military draft is constitutional as participation in our armed forces actually predates the constitution itself.

The military draft is constitutional, because it has been decided so by our government.

Yes, because Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution clearly states that the federal government has the right to institute a draft. Here is the relevant text: To raise and support Armies

The Government has a constitutional obligation to provide for the common defense.

I support the military draft because without it we may not have had enough soldiers in Vietnam or WWII.

Unfortunately, there is nothing in the Constitution that would make the draft not constitutional

Are you kidding me, people? Especially the part about it being constitutional because it predates the constitution.

Jesus, this is what we have to work to reform?

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,679
Points 45,110
Reply
gotlucky replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 10:36 AM

Wheylous, if you enjoy reading that site, then you are a masochist. I was astounded at the stupidity. I had to close my browser. If I spent any longer on that site, I might have gotten dumber.

LibertyHQ and its awesome forum.
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Posts 875
Points 14,180
Reply
xahrx replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 10:39 AM

USA actually stands for The Unfettered Stupidification of America.  But, this is why I support all legislation I opposed once it's been passed.  The only way to bring down the system and to change people's opinions about it is if they see it in action vis a vi their own life.  The more victims of government you create, the more people who see themselves as net losers as opposed to beneficiaries of government action, and the more people who will be open to the idea of scrapping the whole government en toto, or at least scaling it back.  And what better way to turn them against the thing than to let it kill their kids en masse?  All you have to do then is get around the idiot arguments of cowards like Sean Hannity who actually seem to want to send these kids off to die and then hide behind their parents' grief when people question the policies he supported that caused that grief to begin with.  There is a simple way around that though, and it's just to state calmly and factually that if things had been done your way, their kid would be alive today, or in one piece with his brain intact and all his limbs still working.

"I was just in the bathroom getting ready to leave the house, if you must know, and a sudden wave of admiration for the cotton swab came over me." - Anonymous
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,984
Points 89,720
Reply
Wheylous replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 10:47 AM

I do not enjoy it. I had simply read on a website that the draft is unconstitutional, thought it sounded too good to be true, so I decided to look up arguments for why it is constitutional, and I landed on this website.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,679
Points 45,110
Reply
gotlucky replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 11:01 AM

You had me worried for a moment, Wheylous. I was imagining that not only do you come here to see the hilarious and ridiculously awesome absurd debates quarrels, but that you also sought them elsewhere too.

LibertyHQ and its awesome forum.
  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,439
Points 44,650
Reply
Neodoxy replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:10 PM

Lol, seriously, that thread is something else...

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
Posts 1,612
Points 29,515
Reply
Aristophanes replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:10 PM

Hey, gotlucky, why do you think debating Rand's place in the libertarian movement is an "absurd quarrel"?

Neodoxy, why?

The place of revolution in modern times, Rand's libertarian role, Minarchism...all seem like okay topics for the mises forums...

"The Fed does not make predictions. It makes forecasts..." - Mustang19
  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,439
Points 44,650
Reply
Neodoxy replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:26 PM

11:41PM to 2:54AM (my time)

Over 50 posts by 3 people, mostly arguing AT each other instead of WITH each other, and mostly covering the exact same topic and not getting anywhere. It got a little informative towards the end when the matter of law was really brought up and minarchist started defining his actualy position but that was about it.

I'm not saying it was too out of the ordinary for these forums, merely that it was kind of out of control and, well... A little pointless. But I've had my fair share of that.

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,679
Points 45,110
Reply
gotlucky replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:26 PM

Oh the topic itself is fine, and it did start out as a debate, though I'm not so sure I'd classify what it turned into as a debate.

LibertyHQ and its awesome forum.
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,439
Points 44,650
Reply
Neodoxy replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:27 PM

Well it was about as worthwhile and civil as most of the debates I've been in... It's hard to keep debating when the other person doesn't except the proven fact that you're right.

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,679
Points 45,110
Reply
gotlucky replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:28 PM

I think any debate that ends with JJ having sex with a beautiful woman in his bed was worthwhile indeed.

LibertyHQ and its awesome forum.
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Posts 1,612
Points 29,515
Reply
Aristophanes replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:35 PM

I just looked through it again.  There are only a few posts that I'd say are too ... distractionary. 

I won't keep talking about it here, but "Rand's Rift" (as I will now refer to it) is totally important to the "movement."  Understanding what is going on, in order to mend the rift, is bound to spark outrage.

"The Fed does not make predictions. It makes forecasts..." - Mustang19
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,439
Points 44,650
Reply
Neodoxy replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:38 PM

Gotlucky,

I must have missed that one, can you link me?

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,679
Points 45,110
Reply
gotlucky replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 12:42 PM

No problem, Neodoxy. It's right here. He even gets to eat a sandwich too!

LibertyHQ and its awesome forum.
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,018
Points 17,760
Reply
Kelvin Silva replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 1:05 PM

Wasnt the first draft held in the french revolution?

Thats AFTER the constitution i believe.

Neodoxy- we must not force stimulation of the forums, let the free market work.

Would it be my fault for starting the thread, do you know how i felt watching my thread burn down into this argument, at first i thiought it was a friendly discussion but upon reading it was very sad to me how i couldve started something like this. <Could not find word to describe>?

Anyone want to watch brazil vs nigeria live streaming soccer tournament?

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,984
Points 89,720
Reply
Wheylous replied on Wed, Aug 22 2012 8:28 PM

 want to watch brazil vs nigeria live streaming soccer tournament?

Dude, I've been searching for a link for, like, ever! God knows they're hard to find these days!

  • | Post Points: 5
Page 1 of 1 (16 items) | RSS

Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528

Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119

contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises

Mises.org sitemap