This Richard Murphy character is such an economic illiterate. I wonder honestly if he's just a troll
But I stick to my point: a great deal of what we value most is provided by the state. That is why we care about it. That is why we voluntarily pay for it through tax – and vote to do so.
And what about the arts? I get enormous enjoyment from art which could only happen with state support
You cannot, for example, make a nurse and added value supplier by transferring them to the private sector
Base model cars of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but quarter-mile races.
FreedomIsYellow:But I stick to my point: a great deal of what we value most is provided by the state. That is why we care about it. That is why we voluntarily pay for it through tax – and vote to do so.
Sovereignty is not provided by the state, it is what I value most...
wow, this guy is either a dumbass or a minion...
It sounds like the ocean, smells like fresh mountain air, and tastes like the union of peanut butter and chocolate. ~Liberty Student
His definition of "voluntary"
Voluntary - Something you do at the point of a gun upon threat of death.
This is just sad.
At most, I think only 5% of the adult population would need to stop cooperating to have real change.
Here is a new post this small brained person made:
"Author: Richard Murphy Comment: Truth and Liberty You, and many of the others commenting here, promote abuse, nothing more or less You do not argue Further libertarian comments on this and other economic issues will be blocked for good reason - I do not think the discourse you offer any more acceptable to society than that of the BNP Your concept of liberty, as is theirs, is one that is deliberately designed to harm - and would I will not give it space Richard"
Priceless. Simply priceless.
Oh no! He blocked comments from libertarians that are "promoting abuse"
I got in a comment before the blockage.
Rooster: Oh no! He blocked comments from libertarians that are "promoting abuse" I got in a comment before the blockage.
It must be that crazy "Far Right" abuse that seeks to enslave people by reducing their taxation and increasing their personal liberty!
Let's feel sorry for him. He was probably dropped on his head as a child, by one of the socialist doctors that he admires so.
If you disagree with him you're a tyrant! And need to be silenced immediately!!
"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."
twistedbydsign99: His definition of "voluntary" +++ Voluntary - Something you do at the point of a gun upon threat of death.
On the other hand there are many people that (at least used to) pay taxes and abide legislation, because believe that is the right thing to do.
Those that don't still use the roads and public places instead of sticking to their "private property".
He has removed your comment, Spidey. You abuser!
Honestly, why do people get so angry when you point out the problems with their economics?
The most disturbing thing for me is the number of commenters who agree with what he is saying.
Government Explained
Law without Government
I just posted the following comment on his blog.
Richard Murphy, so you are saying that theft (taxes) is okay as long as it supports the well-being of someone? Using that logic, all carjackings should be considered okay since it supports the well-being of others; that is, it supports the well-being of the carjacker and anyone with whom he decides to share the newly-acquired.
Well I had to respond. I didn't go full anarcho-capitalist on him, but I did post the follow:
What obligation is inherent in any social situation? Whether one considers ethics or simply pragmatic means for social harmony, no implicit (nor inherent) obligation shall exist such that it deprives one of the lost time and labor that taxes themselves indeed do. If you tax me for a common road, the time lost from taxes (via time spent on labor to pay the tax) is paid back in unfettered access for the road. If you tax me for a common grounds or square, again this is paid back as unfettered access to that given property.But at no one time can one logically assume that all taxes are ever equal, regardless of intent. Whether it’s a tax to pay a general fund for school lunches for the needy children, or whether it’s a pension tax, or any other kind of selective tax. The reality is that the direct remuneration in time lost via the tax must be there for it to be a valid one. Government or State isn’t the apex of social order. Nor should it be given powers to shape that social order for the fact of perverse consequences due to the centralised nature of the State (and/or Government). As such, no sane human being would find it in their best interest (or that of their neighbor) to offer selective services with accompanied selectived taxes, if said person recognizes the distortion that it creates on the social order (depriving charities of vital funds to maintain their purpose, private opportunities lost due to lack of free capital and savings, and many other distorts both positive and negative). The State in this context can never add value beyond the necessary legal frame work for which the same “social language” is created. Thus, social harmony is improved by a monoculture of law. Beyond this sphere, the State cannot add value in the same kind as yourself, me, or a stranger with a brilliant idea (or plan). This is due to the fact that individuals create, not organizations. And the State as an organization which has monopoly privilege to tax and legislate, should be reigned in as much as possible as to not deprive individuals of given opportunities to act on said ideas (or to impede the creation of them). Ultimately, you have to show the proof in the pudding for your case, Mister Murphy, not your opponents.
"The power of liberty going forward is in decentralization. Not in leaders, but in decentralized activism. In a market process." -- liberty student
He deleted my follow up. Lol.
ladyattis: Well I had to respond. I didn't go full anarcho-capitalist on him, but I did post the follow:
While beautifully put, I think it will warp his little mind and he'll resort to:
[ ] Ignoring you[ ] Ad Hominems[ ] More mindless garbage.
Daniel: He deleted my follow up. Lol.
And his response was even better - no direct refutation of your comment, ad hominem, followed by an appeal to authority! LOL
FreedomIsYellow: ladyattis: Well I had to respond. I didn't go full anarcho-capitalist on him, but I did post the follow: While beautifully put, I think it will warp his little mind and he'll resort to: [ ] Ignoring you[ ] Ad Hominems[ ] More mindless garbage.
It's a lot easier for him to delete the comment. Lol.
Actually, I think it was Napoleon who invented art.
Who knew?
It's sad the man is older than me, but shows the immaturity of a 16 y/o /b/tard.
The more and more I read of the United Kingdom, the more and more I start to think my preconceptions regarding it and it's people are accurate.
Sincerest apologies to any Brits here offended by it, but I say this even as someone who's entire family originates there.
I'm guessing this guy is an adherent of Public Choice Theory, hence his reference to voluntary taxation.
ladyattis: It's sad the man is older than me, but shows the immaturity of a 16 y/o /b/tard.
I made a quip about him being an accountant and honesty concerning information (him deleting posts). But he deleting that post too.
Daniel:I made a quip about him being an accountant and honesty concerning information (him deleting posts). But he deleting that post too.
He is obviously intellectually handicapped. He has deleted two posts I have tried making as well.
Praetyre: I'm guessing this guy is an adherent of Public Choice Theory, hence his reference to voluntary taxation.
What does that have to do with Public Choice Theory?
My bad.. read something a bit back that implied that public choice theory was a basis of many "taxation is voluntary arguments". Wiki would seem to indicate it's merely a study of political economy under rational actor models.
Praetyre:The more and more I read of the United Kingdom, the more and more I start to think my preconceptions regarding it and it's people are accurate.
These comments of mine are "awating moderation".
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
I mean no disrespect to the poster however I feel obligated to comment. The poster of this article nakedly reveals a serious deficiency in understanding of basic economics. The argument is also highly opinion based and like all politicians assumes the masses agree with him. Fortunately for us opinions are rarely true and are often grandoise.
The quote“But I stick to my point: a great deal of what we value most is provided by the state. ”It could be argued a 1000 ways otherwise on the huge fallacy’s of this statement alone but it summarizes the whole post best. Never mind the fact that what you value most is protected nicely under the legal monopoly of the state. Ignorance is bliss however and we will never actually know the true economic wealth we could have if such value’s were open in a free market.
There is hope however for the poster but it will take a few years of studying/reading. They can start here.
Economics in One Lesson
Man Economy State
Human Action
Road to Surfdom
Thats pretty much breaking the surface. Read a few of those then repost a reflection to see if your opinions have changed at all. Some of those books can be found online for free as well.
Thanks
@Richard Murphy
Tax is not theft
No offense again but yes it is. The definition of theft is the act of stealing ones property. Since taxes are not voluntary but forced and taken against the consent of a property owner it is a form of theft of private property.
If the masses(majority) say kill all Jews for the better of man that doesn’t make it right. I think you would agree with me that the holocaust was down right evil. On a lesser level however your applying the same principle to theft of property. Don’t do that!
You may want to review the definition here.theft
You are abusing those who depend on taxation for their well being - as millions do - and which you would deny them
And you are abusing those who do not depend on taxation for well being. I don’t think I have to say how many more of those types of people there are.
Taxation also competes with altruism and philanthropy, you deter and discourage such acts.
Here are my responses, which are pending moderation...
1.
Just a note about comments held in queue: if your post contains multiple hyperlinks, it is automatically held in moderation until someone reviews it. Spammers commonly post a lot of advertizing links and thus, the forum is configured to double check all posts that have several links.
Charles Anthony: Just a note about comments held in queue: if your post contains multiple hyperlinks, it is automatically held in moderation until someone reviews it. Spammers commonly post a lot of advertizing links and thus, the forum is configured to double check all posts that have several links.
Neither of my posts had any links, and it said awaiting moderation and eventually they were deleted. No, he is just scared of ideas that oppose his.
I should have clarified: I was talking about the Mises.org forum moderation. There was a post in this thread that was held in moderation.
Charles Anthony: I should have clarified: I was talking about the Mises.org forum moderation. There was a post in this thread that was held in moderation.
It was my post hence my double post earlier. I got a bit confused because of it. Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for the double post!
For the record none of my posts got through on his blog. He only allows dim questions to leak through or ones that he does not understand.
This one is funny though
Peter:Let’s just say: if you’re planning to get by on the state pension alone in your retirement, you’re in serious trouble. So for many, it can be safely ignored in every financial calcualation.
And Richards graceful response
Richard:Peter Which shows how out of touch you are For millions that is all they are going to have to rely on Richard
Which shows how out of touch you are
For millions that is all they are going to have to rely on
Richard
Lawl!
Here's a comment I just posted. Let's see what happens to it.
Richard, without the state welfare system, families would take care of “the aging population”. Do you know why Social Security came about? Because of the Great Depression. Why, you ask, did the Great Depression happen? Because Hoover and FDR intervened in the economy. Why did Hoover and FDR even consider intervening in the economy? Because the Fed created a bubble during the 1920s that eventually popped. Now, how did “the aging population” survive before Social Security? The family.
The man is so far gone ... and he believes so much in his mystical "New Economics" which will save the world and make everyone equal.
Is he really so ignorant to the fallacies presented by the Marxes and Keynes of this world?
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