Just in case anyone is interested, due to some recent, um, "interest" from the mainstream media about Freedomain Radio, I have had to become proactive in dealing with the abuses coming out of Koen Swinkel's anti-FDR site "Liberating Minds."I have posted a short history, along with some sample quotes of what goes on over there.(Please note that the language I have culled from this site is pretty harsh.)http://freedomainradio.com/liberating_minds.htmlI hope that when the smoke clears, I will feel more comfortable posting here again. Best wishes,Stef
I am the host of Freedomain Radio, the most popular philosophy show on the web, and a Top 10 Finalist in the 2007 Podcast Awards. http://www.freedomainradio.com
You mean you will feel more comfortable advertising here again?
I don't really care what you believe in, or what amount of controversy surrounds you or your site.
I just know that your incessant advertising ends up bringing that drama here, and it does nothing to serve the Mises community. All of it seems geared towards serving your ego or material ends.
So Stefan 'reveals' my real name, quotes from a private e-mail I sent to him, lies about the interactions on the FDR boards that led to my banning (after that I did indeed create two false accounts though did not pick fights), quotes from the 'rant and vent' section in which the entire purpose is to come up with completely over-the-top insults (though other quotes are from other sections), quotes somebody (a complete newcomer) who on LM threatened legal action against Stef while leaving out the responses of everybody else who en masse denounced that idea. He's right about the fixation though.
Mr. Molynuex, while I understand you want to clear your site's name. My bigger concern is that you called and disparaged leading Libertarian figures such as Ron Paul, Roderick T. Long, and even Ludwig Von Mises in a very childish and unprofessional manner. While I understand that this may be your fervor for the cause, I think you should explain and even perhaps apologise for your behavior.
FreedomainRadio:Best wishes
You as well, Mr. Molyneux...
Stefan, I don't understand... If Liberating Minds is really just a bunch of hateful anti-Semitic ranting (I'm an Israeli; they haven't made me feel uncomfortable or unwelcome) and over-the-top lying about Freedomain Radio, why would this be a necessary action on your part? I mean, it's not like you would have any reason to say anything about this bombastic account. From first hand experience, I can attest that while some of what's said on the Liberating Minds forum is overly biased, petty, and even vengeful, there's also a lot of genuine concern over there for some of the things that go on within your community and the people who are affected by them. I find it sort of worrisome that your response to Liberating Minds is to attempt to discredit them as individuals, rather than to provide a go-to explanation of why their concern is unwarranted. As someone who's been sort of blindsided by this whole controversy, something like that would be really useful.
But posting an obvious smear job on your website immediately comes off as overly defensive and desperate. As a Jew myself (not in the religious sense, but in the ethnic sense), I can say that I found some of the "humor" in the threads you cited to be tasteless and a bit off-putting. I'm not sure what the background was on the conversations, but it's certainly worth pointing out that throwing around some of those words can be alienating and hurtful. But on the other hand, it's worth noting that Liberating Minds is not the only libertarian community where that sort of thing is normal. For example, the Free Talk Live community has an entire section of their site dedicated to obscene and lewd humor. I don't really understand the appeal, but I don't think it would be fair to say that Free Talk Live is a failure as a forum because of that section, and nor would I say the same about the Liberating Minds forum.
http://libertarian-left.blogspot.com/
Donny with an A:For example, the Free Talk Live community has an entire section of their site dedicated to obscene and lewd humor. I don't really understand the appeal, but I don't think it would be fair to say that Free Talk Live is a failure as a forum because of that section, and nor would I say the same about the Liberating Minds forum.
From what I've heard, Free Talk Live, is in more succesful than FDR. And more respected.
I have been an observer of both Liberating Minds and FDR for some time. I've written a brief response regarding Molyneux's depiction of Liberating Minds, for whatever it's worth.
http://fdrliberated.blogspot.com/2008/11/defining-of-liberating-minds.html
One more thought: What I object to most in Molyneux' post here is his attempt to make me look like an anti-Semite.
Stef knows as well as anybody else that a charge of anti-Semitism is ruinous for somebody's career etc. So he then copy-pastes from a section of our Forum called 'rant and vent' where the whole purpose is to come up with the most outlandish insults, and what could be more outlandish than anti-Semitic insults?
Of course he leaves out this context and makes it seem as if these kinds of remarks are standard on LM and as if I said them in all seriousness. As Danny said it is very well possible for somebody not to like this kind of humor (the outlandish insults kind). but, I would add, it is quite another thing to make it seem as if it was anything other than (an attempt at) humor. To be sure, I am not an anti-Semite...at all... and I think it is pretty vile of Molyneux to try to create that impression.
Conrad:I think it is pretty vile of Molyneux to try to create that impression.
Yes, this seems to be the general consensus about Molyneux.
Sometimes "majority" simply means that all the fools are on the same side
katja328:so. Please stay away. I am suggesting we close this thread as to not feed the ego and keep the petty soap opera of mises.org.
I second that! This is a place to discuss political theory and practice. Not a high school lunchroom.
Nick. B: katja328:so. Please stay away. I am suggesting we close this thread as to not feed the ego and keep the petty soap opera of mises.org. I second that! This is a place to discuss political theory and practice. Not a high school lunchroom.
Just be around when the first ad-hom is thrown in an argument; it's like 10th grade all over again.
WARNING: This signature violates Rule 5. Stay classy!
We all want liberty... at least a more minimal state...
What's the problem? We're on the same team the way I see it...
Property rights + non aggression axiom ? You support that?
- Ok cool, welcome to the Big Tent then..
Conza88: We all want liberty... at least a more minimal state... What's the problem? We're on the same team the way I see it... Property rights + non aggression axiom ? You support that? - Ok cool, welcome to the Big Tent then..
Yeah, but I understand why some people don't trust Mr. Molyneux. If their fear is of him is ever proven, Molyneux could be more of a danger than anything else. A megalomaniac is a DEADLY ally only to his FRIENDS!
Nitroadict: Just be around when the first ad-hom is thrown in an argument; it's like 10th grade all over again.
Oh give it a rest already you big knucklehead!
liberty student: Nitroadict: Just be around when the first ad-hom is thrown in an argument; it's like 10th grade all over again. Oh give it a rest already you big knucklehead!
Just givin' a newbie a healthy does of cynicism, is all . Otherwise, the forum still remains an excellent place to discuss topics & ideas beyond the pale of mainstream mediocrity.
Nitroadict: liberty student: Nitroadict: Just be around when the first ad-hom is thrown in an argument; it's like 10th grade all over again. Oh give it a rest already you big knucklehead! Just givin' a newbie a healthy does of cynicism, is all . Otherwise, the forum still remains an excellent place to discuss topics & ideas beyond the pale of mainstream mediocrity.
No it's fine Nitroadict. What I meant is that I don't want drama to become the rule rather than the exception.
There is something about the nature of great thinkers, a category in which I do not hesitate to place Mr. Molynuex, that often causes them to often not be the best at understanding human relations. Ayn Rand is a case in point. In fact, there are striking similarities between Ayn Rand and Mr. Molynuex. Both are ethnically Jewish atheists. Both are immigrants. Both had connections to theater. I must stress that I think the Mr. Molynuex has a great deal to offer the world and, in the long term, I think that his influence will be very positive. He once did a very touching podcast about an issue I had. I am very thankful to Stefan personally and might not be an an-cap right now were it not for his positive influence. I think he is a good person who has much to offer the world. I have even donated to his cause (I also donate to LVMI). I just wish that he handled conflicts differently.
I am an eklektarchist not an anarchist.
Educational Pamphlet Mises Group
That's weird. He sent exactly the same message to an e-mail list that I'm on.
Market anarchist, Linux geek, aspiring Perl hacker, and student of the neo-Aristotelians, the classical individualist anarchists, and the Austrian school.
That is why stuff like this is spam. The author is not starting a discussion, he's just using the website to host and promote his message. If someone genuinely wanted to reach out to the Mises community, they could be bothered to write something unique and specific.
ryanpatgray: There is something about the nature of great thinkers, a category in which I do not hesitate to place Mr. Molynuex, that often causes them to often not be the best at understanding human relations. Ayn Rand is a case in point. In fact, there are striking similarities between Ayn Rand and Mr. Molynuex. Both are ethnically Jewish atheists. Both are immigrants. Both had connections to theater. I must stress that I think the Mr. Molynuex has a great deal to offer the world and, in the long term, I think that his influence will be very positive. He once did a very touching podcast about an issue I had. I am very thankful to Stefan personally and might not be an an-cap right now were it not for his positive influence. I think he is a good person who has much to offer the world. I have even donated to his cause (I also donate to LVMI). I just wish that he handled conflicts differently.
whoa now. Molyneux has a long way to go before he's in the league Mises, Rand, or Rothbard. He hasn't stood the test of time yet. And also from what I've seen he offers nothing truly new or groundbreaking.
liberty student: That is why stuff like this is spam. The author is not starting a discussion, he's just using the website to host and promote his message. If someone genuinely wanted to reach out to the Mises community, they could be bothered to write something unique and specific.
The more evidence I get a hold of, the it more seems like Molyneux is a dangerous hack, who has no intention, but, to make his wallet fatter.
Nick. B: liberty student: That is why stuff like this is spam. The author is not starting a discussion, he's just using the website to host and promote his message. If someone genuinely wanted to reach out to the Mises community, they could be bothered to write something unique and specific. The more evidence I get a hold of, the it more seems like Molyneux is a dangerous hack, who has no intention, but, to make his wallet fatter.
Some would interject with "Hate the game, not the player", but I think it's more grey than that. As long as Molyneux's views/products/words/etc. are consumed with a good sense of skepticism & debate, I do not see him do much harm, honestly.I agree that the spamming is off-putting, though.
Nitroadict: Nick. B: liberty student: That is why stuff like this is spam. The author is not starting a discussion, he's just using the website to host and promote his message. If someone genuinely wanted to reach out to the Mises community, they could be bothered to write something unique and specific. The more evidence I get a hold of, the it more seems like Molyneux is a dangerous hack, who has no intention, but, to make his wallet fatter. Some would interject with "Hate the game, not the player", but I think it's more grey than that. As long as Molyneux's views/products/words/etc. are consumed with a good sense of skepticism & debate, I do not see him do much harm, honestly.I agree that the spamming is off-putting, though.
I think the best thing to do with Molyneux is to trust but verify.
I am suggesting we close this thread as to not feed the ego and keep the petty soap opera of mises.org.
Done.
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...
Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528
Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119
contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises
Mises.org sitemap