The Mises Community
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

And the State says, "jk."

rated by 0 users
This post has 9 Replies | 5 Followers

Not Ranked
Posts 21
Points 450
marcbragh Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2008 3:09 AM

I was considering renouncing my United States citizenship and becoming "stateless," so I did some research.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

This particular section is hilarious:  "Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information)."

Now, please take solace in the fact that one would not be receiving ANY rights or privileges in the United States if he renounces his citizenship.  They will take away one's... rights -- if and only if he chooses to NOT be a citizen. 

So now the question is this:

Do I really want to have the state take away my rights and make me pay taxes and, if ordered, serve in the military?

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 378
Points 7,330

marcbragh:

I was considering renouncing my United States citizenship and becoming "stateless," so I did some research.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

This particular section is hilarious:  "Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information)."

Now, please take solace in the fact that one would not be receiving ANY rights or privileges in the United States if he renounces his citizenship.  They will take away one's... rights -- if and only if he chooses to NOT be a citizen. 

So now the question is this:

Do I really want to have the state take away my rights and make me pay taxes and, if ordered, serve in the military?

You seem surprised. Just because you refuse to accept protection from the mafia doesn't mean they will stop coming around demanding protectiong money.

"I cannot prove, but am prepared to affirm, that if you take care of clarity in reasoning, most good causes will take care of themselves, while some bad ones are taken care of as a matter of course." -Anthony de Jasay

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,669
Points 81,345

If the state let you stop paying taxes and obeying their rules by denouncing your citizenship, it might as well be a PDA.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

  • | Post Points: 20
Not Ranked
Posts 21
Points 450
marcbragh replied on Fri, Nov 21 2008 4:37 AM

oh darn :-)

it was meant as a comical post with an emphasis on the irony of the last statement.  i guess it wasn't as funny as it was at 3AM  (most things aren't).

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 395
Points 6,930

I'm surprised they even have information about this, though not about the nature of this information. So much for citizenship and social contract theory then.

If you try to trick the market, it will get its revenge.

Solreyus

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Posts 1,307
Points 23,605
scineram replied on Fri, Nov 21 2008 6:00 AM

Why would you not pay taxes? Taxation is based on income. Legal residents and them mexicans pay taxes too.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 46
Points 535
scineram:

Why would you not pay taxes? Taxation is based on income. Legal residents and them mexicans pay taxes too.

Government cannot own land. Why would you be paying taxes if you renounce your citizenship? Do former-ACLU members have to pay dues even though theyre not members anymore? hmm Not all taxation is based on income btw
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 7,643
Points 132,735
MVP
SystemAdministrator

Anyone serious about considering renouncing their citizenship should read NoState.com.

Basically, you should leave the US to renounce your citizenship.  Mike @ NoState is going through the process right now.

I believe what the passage is saying, is that you can't get out of a military obligation, or run from a tax obligation by renouncing.  I don't believe it means they can draft you, but rather than you can't use renunciation as a means to avoid a contract for service.

 

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,809
Points 27,750
Moderator
MVP

liberty student:

Anyone serious about considering renouncing their citizenship should read NoState.com.

Basically, you should leave the US to renounce your citizenship.  Mike @ NoState is going through the process right now.

I believe what the passage is saying, is that you can't get out of a military obligation, or run from a tax obligation by renouncing.  I don't believe it means they can draft you, but rather than you can't use renunciation as a means to avoid a contract for service.

 


I was actually considering doing what Mike @ NoState has done maybe about a decade from now.  I figure it would be easier to do this once I've been in NH for a while (& hopefully contribute more to the movement there aside from simply being there & managing a living), as opposed to where I am now (Maryland... sigh...).  I could work on learning languages now, of course, but with my social circles (& subsequent social obligations, as well as family) & work, I barley have any time to get serious about knowing a language. 

Sadly, at some point, I will probably have to say "goodbye" to my social life & friends here in order to better my own life (technology helps keeps tabs, but some friends & almost always family cannot be replaced by such means). 

As for moving out of the US, I have no clue as to which country might be the "least worst" candidate, especially since the languages I'm interested in learning (Japanese & Russian) do not come from very good candidate states, lol...

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,669
Points 81,345

Nitroadict:

As for moving out of the US, I have no clue as to which country might be the "least worst" candidate,

I'm thinking Liechtenstein would be an ideal candidate for some sort of European FSP.

 

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

  • | Post Points: 5
Page 1 of 1 (10 items) | RSS

Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528

Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119

contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises

Mises.org sitemap