The Mises Community
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

Why is it so important to justify religion from a libertarian perspective?

rated by 0 users
This post has 50 Replies | 8 Followers

Top 500 Contributor
Posts 30
Points 870
LUCHAC Posted: Tue, Sep 2 2008 2:30 PM

Why so many books on 'Catholicism and Markets', on 'What is Ceasar's' ?

I don't see the relation of religion with economics or political philosophy, even if they had anything in common like... they interest men.

If aynthing, shouldn't this be exclusive of other religious views on the matter?

 


  • | Post Points: 95
Top 500 Contributor
Female
Posts 90
Points 1,350

I find that religion and government share something in common - they both cater to people who want to have an external authority to direct their lives.

Jain

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,352
Points 23,910

Actually, it's the justification of libertarianism from a religious perspective.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 150 Contributor
Posts 192
Points 6,580
Voievod replied on Tue, Sep 2 2008 3:47 PM

For most of it's history, religion as lived alongside feudalism and all sorts of oppressive systems. Religion loves nothing else than to force itself on people who want nothing to do with it.

 

So tell me again, what do libertarianism and religion have in common? Real religions practiced by real people, not fantasy religions that don't exist in reality.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 56
Points 995

There is nothing inherent to libertarianism which requires the justification of any religious beliefs.

A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 352
Points 6,830
Moderator

LUCHAC:

Why so many books on 'Catholicism and Markets', on 'What is Ceasar's' ?

I don't see the relation of religion with economics or political philosophy, even if they had anything in common like... they interest men.

If aynthing, shouldn't this be exclusive of other religious views on the matter?

 

So "religious" men become libertarians. Also your worldview (theistic, atheistic, pantheistic etc) will influence your political philosophy.

The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.

Yours sincerely,

Physiocrat

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 325
Points 4,945
nhaag replied on Wed, Sep 3 2008 10:55 AM

Two reasons i find for the importance of those books without pondering too much.

First, the western civilization is heavily influenced by christianity (which is in fact an understatement) and therefor to promote libertarian values it seems quite smart to talk to christians rather than beat them up verbally.

Second, christian principles (No, I do not mean the churches and what they did over the centuries but the basic christian belives) go very well with freedom and liberalism.

Bottomline, you pick up the dialog about freedom from where you are and use the believe systems people are aquinted with to make your case.

 

In the begining there was nothing, and it exploded.

Terry Pratchett (on the big bang theory)

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 150 Contributor
Posts 192
Points 6,580
Voievod replied on Wed, Sep 3 2008 11:16 AM

Christopher hitchens argues that the New Testament view of god's kindgom is just a cosmic North Korea, with a big brother watching over you who will send you to suffer forever and ever if you don't submit to his rule.

 

  • | Post Points: 50
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 7,643
Points 132,750
MVP
SystemAdministrator

Christopher Hitchens is a fascist, a trotskyite and an apologist for authoritarian government.  With those well-defined perspectives of his in mind, I don't think much of his criticisms of anyone else have much weight.  He always has an angle he is trying to promote, and his atheism is of the NWO sort of western/caucasian superiority complex.  A loyalist who has embedded himself with the colonials.

I am an atheist by the way.  A tolerant one.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,247
Points 65,050
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

NWO?

-Jon

To darkness I condemn you...

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,352
Points 23,910
Byzantine replied on Wed, Sep 3 2008 11:35 AM

New World Order, i.e., a global hegemony of democracy and human rights, enforced by the US and its NATO allies.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 150 Contributor
Posts 192
Points 6,580
Voievod replied on Wed, Sep 3 2008 11:37 AM

Ad hominem attacks are no way to disprove an argument. A careful reading of the bible supports his case much more than it does the "libertarian christianity" case.

Christians might interpret the bible as to be libertarian on earthl, but when it comes to heaven, there's only one way to make it, and that's obedience to the rules.

 

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 7,643
Points 132,750
MVP
SystemAdministrator

Jon, you're kidding right?

 

@Byzantine, thanks.  More blog material off this subtopic.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 7,643
Points 132,750
MVP
SystemAdministrator

xSFx:
Ad hominem attacks are no way to disprove an argument. A careful reading of the bible supports his case much more than it does the "libertarian christianity" case.

Christians might interpret the bible as to be libertarian on earthl, but when it comes to heaven, there's only one way to make it, and that's obedience to the rules.

Dude, I'm an atheist.  I don't care about defending or attacking the bible.  Hitchens is a pig, and I am resigned to calling a pig a pig from now on, no more tip-toeing around pointing out statists for what they are.

As far as Ad Homs, my description is correct.  Hitchens admits he is a trotskyite, and proudly so.  He is an apologist for authoritarian government (see his debate with George Galloway), and fascist, well look, if you support Bush WHILE UNDERSTANDING the consequences of his policies, you're a damn fascist.  I don't think there is much debate about that.

 

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,247
Points 65,050
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

I'm not a conspiratoid, so no. Stick out tongue

-Jon

To darkness I condemn you...

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,352
Points 23,910
Byzantine replied on Wed, Sep 3 2008 11:54 AM

xSFx:
Christians might interpret the bible as to be libertarian on earthl, but when it comes to heaven, there's only one way to make it, and that's obedience to the rules.

Is your view that libertarianism means the absence of rules?

Help!  I'm being oppressed by the law of gravity!

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 7,643
Points 132,750
MVP
SystemAdministrator

Jon Irenicus:

I'm not a conspiratoid, so no. Stick out tongue

-Jon

How many times do major politicians have to talk about a New World Order, or books published by high profile statists talking about a New World Order, or the policy recommendations from publoic think tanks extolling a New World Order until coincidence theorists admit that yes, there may be an agenda for a NWO in some quarters.

The rampant anti-intellectualism of the libertarian movement is very disappointing at times.  Everyone admits the state is evil, irrational and dangerous, but if you mention that it could be conspiratorial, well then you're the crazy, because the wonderful government would *never* do anything anti-liberty in secret... Confused

I've had enough of coincidence theorists thank you very much.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

  • | Post Points: 50
Top 150 Contributor
Posts 192
Points 6,580
Voievod replied on Wed, Sep 3 2008 12:11 PM

Dude, I'm an atheist. I don't care about defending or attacking the bible. Hitchens is a pig, and I am resigned to calling a pig a pig from now on, no more tip-toeing around pointing out statists for what they are.
That is a non sequitur in regard to the problem of Christianity & Libertarianism.

Is your view that libertarianism means the absence of rules?
Is it your view that a set of absolute rules that everyone must follow or face the consequences, instituted by a cosmic dictator called "god" by his followers is Libertarianism?

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,247
Points 65,050
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

Sure, politicians say lots of stupid things.

-Jon

To darkness I condemn you...

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,352
Points 23,910
Byzantine replied on Wed, Sep 3 2008 12:34 PM

xSFx:
Is it your view that a set of absolute rules that everyone must follow or face the consequences, instituted by a cosmic dictator called "god" by his followers is Libertarianism?

How is this any different from Nature or the Market?

  • | Post Points: 20
Page 1 of 3 (51 items) 1 2 3 Next > | RSS

Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528

Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119

contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises

Mises.org sitemap