OK, there are lots of brilliant or even freethinking minds here so this should be an interesting thread -
What do you envision MOE (media of exchage) to be if there wasn't a monopolistic money system? And what would be the basis for determining the value of that MOE? What I am looking for are solid ideas for a better MOE than is currently used by humans.
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I'm sure there will be lots of replies for rare metals such as gold etc., but couldn't a person issue 'labor certificates' towards future hours of work to be preformed?
Jain
Not all units of labour are equal, you would have to create a currency for every person, for every labour activity.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
liberty student: Not all units of labour are equal, you would have to create a currency for every person, for every labour activity.
Yes, I had thought of that too. Maybe labor 'credits' could be fractional or guaged against a measurable standard? In the past some work was paid by the work done, not the #/hours employed to obtain that end product. And couldn't there arise a service that served to 'measure' or grade labor so that a person could use such a 'grading' as a validation of their ability to preform?
Questions and comments can only help to track down and brainstorm better alternatives in this quest. Hoping to hear from others and PLEASE, some suggestions for a better MOE!
One of the reasons I started this topic was hearing that in Argentina when the money system there collapsed, (U$) dollars were used as an 'alternative currency'. If (or should I say when?) the U$ suffers a similuar fate, what would be our alternatives? Another fiat currency like Euros? Or how wonderful would it be for the U$ dollar to rise from the ashes like a phoenix to become the Amero (money union of Canada, Mexico and US)? Isn't that just 're-setting' the game of fiat currency which is what brought the collapse in the first place?
Lots of questions - hoping for (positive) answers - Jain
The same as in the eastern block. Cigarettes and booze. What else?
Or actually the dollar could go the way of the somali schiling and became pure commodity money.
scineram: The same as in the eastern block. Cigarettes and booze. What else?
Isn't that the same as barter really? And while both of those items can be made, there has to be different levels of value within each commodity. Is it inherent that MOE will be flexible or is it possible to have a fixed measurement as the ONLY basis?
scineram: Or actually the dollar could go the way of the somali schiling and became pure commodity money.
Interesting! Could you elaborate more on commodity money and how/if it is working in Somali? One of the things I think seriously stopping a better MOE is due to (false) sense of superiority by the so-called main powers.
Why complicate things, what's wrong with using gold?
in Argentina when the money system there collapsed, (U$) dollars were used as an 'alternative currency'.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Zlatko: Why complicate things, what's wrong with using gold?
I would like to agree, but for all gold's historic use, why hasn't it remained as THE 'money' for mankind? Sure I understand the 'fudge factor' that fiat currently provides to government, but why has gold fallen from grace with the average person? Is this an example of dumbing down via government schooling (an oxymoron if I ever heard one)?
And how would you envision gold being used as money? Actual coins in circulation? Most likely as a basis for a verifiable MOE, but who/how is the verification done? I just heard a quote from a US Congressman who thought that the U$ dollar was back by gold! The level of misinformation is shocking.
Juan:I'm pretty sure that if there was no government then digital gold currencies would outcompete all other MOEs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_gold_currency in Argentina when the money system there collapsed, (U$) dollars were used as an 'alternative currency'. In argentina dollars are used as 'store of value' and as currency when buying/selling things like cars, houses, etc.
So there wasn't a 'collapse' of the Argentina money?!? Perhaps I need to rephrase my question - IF the U$ dollar was NOT accepted as a money, what would be the alternative for continuing daily life? (If I'm not mistaken the US currency - Continentals and greenback (circa 1860s) were decreased in value to near worthless ness. Not to mention the Confederate money after the Civil War too)
Jain Daugh:I would like to agree, but for all gold's historic use, why hasn't it remained as THE 'money' for mankind? Sure I understand the 'fudge factor' that fiat currently provides to government, but why has gold fallen from grace with the average person?
It's been confiscated in most countries, made in limited quantities as tender, and is usually discouraged (i.e. you get thrown in jail) if you try to use it.
However, for the not-so-average person, it can work well in the black market.
Jain:So there wasn't a 'collapse' of the Argentina money?!? Perhaps I need to rephrase my question
but for all gold's historic use, why hasn't it remained as THE 'money' for mankind?
Electronic money?
I don't know, I see metals as being the best money, but not necessarily the best media of exchange
Juan:but for all gold's historic use, why hasn't it remained as THE 'money' for mankind? Because is was outlawed in the 20th century by (almost?) all governments.
If there is one piece of dys-information that has been laid upon the sheeple via the so-called education system, it would be NOT understanding what 'money' is. Heck it doesn't seem that non-Austrian economists know that either!
Why has gold been 'outlawed' by governments?!? - Because it can't be manipulated or 'created' (aka printed) - it remains a SOLID item.
Juan: Jain:So there wasn't a 'collapse' of the Argentina money?!? Perhaps I need to rephrase my question No, I need to rephrase my answer =] There was a collapse here and dollars were used instead of the local currency as you say. And the same thing is happening now - that's why I said "dollars are used as..." So, what if the same thing happened to the US dollar ? Good question. I don't have an answer though =/
I am secertly hoping that some brilliant mind here will have a likewise brillant suggestion! Right now all that seems to be a good 'investment' is practical and usable items - including food (one of the cheapest insurances one can have - food storage)
Wren: Electronic money? I don't know, I see metals as being the best money, but not necessarily the best media of exchange
Well put Wren - metals, being a solid measurable and not easily produced item helps to prevent manipulation, while electronic money is so much more convienent. The only bad thing about electronic money is that it relys on electricity and access to computers/networks to be used. I also fear that it would be far and away more easily manipulated than even script (paper money)!!
Well the gold standard is not the same thing as "gold-coin standards". The gold standard allows a country to fix the value of their currency to the price of gold, so that for any note that is produced, you can exchange at any time for the amount of gold.
I think Alan Greenspan summed it up pretty well...
"under the gold standard, a free banking system stands as the protector of an economy's stability and balanced growth... The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit... In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
An electronic currency backed 100% by gold is an excellent monetary system in the modern age. No need to carry money pay everything electronically and if you really want the physical gold you can cash out so to speak and the electronic money vendor will send actual gold. There are already several in place and I am working on one myself which should be up and running in about 6 months.
Maxliberty: Electronic currency backed 100% by gold is an excellent monetary system in the modern age. No need to carry money pay everything electronically and if you really want the physical gold you can cash out so to speak and the electronic money vendor will send actual gold. There are already several in place and I am working on one myself which should be up and running in about 6 months.
Electronic currency backed 100% by gold is an excellent monetary system in the modern age. No need to carry money pay everything electronically and if you really want the physical gold you can cash out so to speak and the electronic money vendor will send actual gold. There are already several in place and I am working on one myself which should be up and running in about 6 months.
Max, you seem experienced in the use of e-gold. How is the (physical) amount of gold vs. the electonically represented amount checked/verified? Where is the actual gold stored and how did you check out the reputation of the service?
I would like to think that those who understand the value of gold as a money basis would be honest and reputable people, but history records how gold has been misused in the past and we are after all, only human! Limits will be tested and governments have seized gold after they have totally messed up their money too. What safe guards would help/prevent that?
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