After reading Professor Block's writing on getting a doctorate, it seems like it isn't completely impossible to pursue Austrian economics academically - you just have to look harder. However, getting a good education in Austrian economics for your undergraduate is near impossible. Hillsdale has become a neocon bastion and there's no way in hell I'd want to go to Grove City.
I've heard that George Mason is good for Austrian economics for your doctorate. Is it also good for your undergrad? Also, is it necessary to get a master's degree in econ, or can you go straight to your phd?
Lastly, if you got a degree in something like philosophy, but took enough math on the side, could you still be on track for a phd in econ?
Thanks.
Good question. I want to know where you can study Austrian econ as an undergrad and then if it's possible to go to GMU or NYU for a PhD or MA.
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I'm probably not the best person to ask about studying economics, but I'd point out that a lot of the ideas that Austrians study also fall within the realms of social and economic philosophy. Further, a good proportion of Austrian economists deal extensively with questions which actually fall within the realms of ethics and political philosophy (though they'd be quick to point out that they don't do so as economists). So if you're not completely thrilled about having to jump through the hoops associated with studying economics, you can still pursue a lot of the same kinds of work through studying philosophy. That's what I'm doing, and I've found that I'm more or less able to keep up in discussions about Austrian economics.
Of course, if you take that route, you have to keep two things in mind. First, philosophy is a broad discipline, and most departments will offer opportunities to do your own research or dictate the content of your own projects. If you're serious about focusing on economic philosophy, you'll likely need to augment the department's program by using every available opportunity to reach across disciplines and bring economic ideas into your philosophical work. You'll also need to do a whole lot of independent reading, and it may help to look into ways of practicing your economic reasoning (message boards like these have been really good for me). Second, whether or not you can get into an economics graduate program with a degree in philosophy, it may nevertheless be true that majoring in philosophy will make it more difficult to do anything besides become a philosopher (or go to law school, I suppose). So if you don't ultimately want to study philosophy, I'd think long and hard about majoring in it.
On the other hand, I really enjoyed my undergraduate experience in philosophy, and am really excited about applying to graduate schools this fall to keep going. I was fortunate enough to be able to incorporate the philosophy of economics into a whole lot of my classes, and I actually think that approaching economics from a philosophical standpoint has actually prepared me better for thinking about economic concepts than a degree in economics would have. That being said, I'm no mathematician, and so I'll likely never fully jump the gap; and moreover, I don't think I should have to be a mathematician to study economics, and accordingly I wouldn't want to switch even if I could. But if you're willing to stomach the formulas, more power to you.
Anyway, good luck; I look forward to hearing about your decision!
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I think both NYU and GMU have some undegraduate courses in Austrian economics as part of their degrees, but not many. The former has quite a few Austrian professors though, and regular seminars/meetings related to Austrian econ. NYU to my knowledge is more closely affiliated to the Misesian branch of Austrianism. I think both would be excellent places to study economics. I have a friend going to GMU this year, so I'll be sure to extract information from him.
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So do you think it's possible to learn economics without mathematics up to the graduate level or no? I'm asking because most graduate schools, NYU among them, require a fair amount of math if you want to attend.
Hm, probably not. If you want to do a Masters or a PHD you will have to know some Math, I think. At least most courses I have looked up require it.
Anyone have any familiarity with Santa Clara U?
I'm actually interested in math, so the math requirements aren't too troublesome for me. I remember Santa Clara being mentioned somewhere.... I'll look it up.
Do you guys know anything about Loyola College in Maryland, where Professor DiLorenzo teaches?
I've talked to GMU undergrands and from what they told me, the program is virtually austrian from the beginning. Or at least, you can take austrian teachers for the vast majority of your undergrad major requirements.
Okay, that sounds awesome. I'm definitely going to consider going there for undergrad, especially since the site studentsreview.com has favorable reviews about the college as well.
So let's say I got accepted for the economics program there, and was able to do research under a professor. Exactly what kind of research would be done? Where would this kind of research get me as far as grad school admissions? I could get into other Austrian-friendly programs, but it is more important to find an Austrian-friendly program or just go to the most prestigious grad school possible? If I got a doctorate from GMU, where would that put me in being placed at a good position?
GMU is prestigious as far as economics and law go. The degree is still in neoclassical economics, in spite of the number of Austrian courses on it, and thus would qualify you for studies at any university, provided you do well. Block recommends one opt to go to the most prestigious universities possible. I think at graduate level you'll have more leverage in what subjects you may pursue, so perhaps you could do an undergrad degree say at GMU or NYU, and a PHD at Harvard. Not that either GMU or NYU are deficient relative to it...
ticktockclok:Okay, that sounds awesome. I'm definitely going to consider going there for undergrad, especially since the site studentsreview.com has favorable reviews about the college as well.
Where does Block say that you should try to go the most prestigious undergraduate university possible? I only saw him saying to go to a prestigious grad school. And what could possibly be gained from getting a Harvard economics degree vs. a George Mason econ degree? If I had to go to Harvard for economics, it would be something I would dread every day. George Mason is something I could look forward to. What is a "prestigious" university? The ones that are best known for being socialist strongholds? I don't want to follow Block's path if it guarantees me the four most miserable years of my life.
I hope you're not hyperventilating. It's in Block's letter of advice addressed to graduate students. The reason he recommends doing a degree at a prestigious university should be evident: it'll make it easier for you to gain recognition in academia, and thus steer the flow of ideas. Also, more prestigious universities tend to attract higher calibre students, and interaction with them will be a benefit. These are the reasons he outlines in the letter. He also mentions Harvard's orientation is shifting towards market economics. I'd also prefer attending GMU or NYU, but if I wanted to make a large impact, I'd try get into Harvard for a PHD.
banned: Anyone have any familiarity with Santa Clara U?
I think it is in Santa Clara.
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Ok, but I'm asking about undergraduate. Does it really matter where I go for undergraduate?
It matters to the university where you will do the graduate degree, but admittedly they are not as selective in the case of undergraduate studies. GMU/NYU are themselves prestigious though, so I don't think an undergraduate degree from them would disadvantage you in any way. I re-read your post and mine, and now I see what you were driving at, but I had covered that by mentioning that the graduate degree is the one that should be done at the more prestigious university.
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