IF any of you guys listen to Free Talk Live you know Ian is fond of saying that "words have meaning." Well I agree, in fact I insist that taken to its logical conclusion the non-aggression axiom excludes libertarian labels. I also argue that we need more schism and differentiation of labels between "liberty lovers" since we could spend less time fighting over who is a "true libertarian" by paradoxically caring more about the terms we use. I have post here at my blog that I encourage you to read.
http://nocoercionzone.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-i-reject-terms-libertarian-and.html
I'm not going to copy the whole dang link, you can just read it. Reply here on the forum or just comment in my blog.
Well said. I have to say, the term libertarian has been basterdized by the Party and the American Right. I think the term voluntaryist is ideal in that there are no ways to mistake it's intention for something else, but I disagree with your assertion that the word voluntaryist should be used since voluntarism ought to be the central thrust to one who adheres to the NAP. I do think voluntarism is imposible without liberty and anarchy and that all three principles ought to be strived for.
So is 'voluntaryist' the Newspeak word I'm allowed to use these days?
Just asking because it would help out a bunch.
Mutualists could just as well take over the word Voluntarist.
It's all well and good until someone forms a voluntaryist party or a mutualist party.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
Elimination of the State alone does not make anarchy since one can easily choose one's king. It creates a system similar to panarhcy instead. As I have said an anarchist could choose anarchy but if anarchy means without rulers then it is impossible to have on a totally social basis since some legitimately could choose not to have rulers but others could choose to do so, meaning that they are not anarchy. Anarchy has to be a personal, rather than social goal, and voluntaryism is the way you get there.
Second, libertarianism vs. voluntaryism. If we say we're libertarians it makes us look like "libertines." Of course we don't object to a man being a tyrant with himself or joining a community containing little actual liberty (like a fundamentalist religious community) as long as its voluntary. Also, like I said earlier about drug addiction etc. Man has a full right to voluntarily enslave himself, even if his freedom to do so leads to less liberty. If liberty for all is our highest goal I don't see it here. We would want much more liberty than we have today but it isn't an end in itself, it is simply a means to achieving a society where all human relations are voluntary.
banned:I do think voluntarism is imposible without liberty and anarchy and that all three principles ought to be strived for.
Well said, banned.
Irish Liberty Forum
Doesn't mean I'm going to reject the term, although I favour liberal over libertarian, as that is the original term anyway used to characterize individuals whose goal was liberty.
-Jon
To darkness I condemn you...
Jon Irenicus: Doesn't mean I'm going to reject the term, although I favour liberal over libertarian, as that is the original term anyway used to characterize individuals whose goal was liberty. -Jon
but...but... adhering to the original use of terms is playing with definitions!
WARNING: This signature violates Rule 5. Stay classy!
Hey, not my fault the "lefties" tried to co-opt terms that did not originally characterize their beliefs...
Nitroadict:but...but... adhering to the original use of terms is playing with definitions!
lol. wasn't libertarian used for french socialist revolutionaries at the time of its inception. liberal and libertarian got flipped somewhere down the line.
SInce we are on the topic of bastardizing language, I tell you what bothers me the most: ultra-modern uses of the term Rhythm And Blues or the common short-form R'N'B.
When I say Rhythm And Blues I am talking about Rhythm And Blues. I went to the record store the other day and asked to be directed to the RNB section. The kid at the counter sent me to the rap section! What gives??
-----
I find it easier to argue to manage the bastardization of the term "libertarian" because at least most people can scale it down to the term "liberty" to arrive at an internally consistent definition.
Screw that. They aren't going to Newspeak my language while I stand by. They can go to hell. I won't be their victim in this anymore than anything else.
Pro Christo et Libertate integre!
Hell Yeah brother. We gotta take the power back.
Does anyone have the text of the blog post? Apparently, blogger sends me to a page that says the blog's been deleted... I'm genuinley anoyyed, having bookmarked it previously :\
Nitroadict: Does anyone have the text of the blog post? Apparently, blogger sends me to a page that says the blog's been deleted... I'm genuinley anoyyed, having bookmarked it previously :\
bump.
Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528
Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119
contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises
Mises.org sitemap