By 2040 100% of the regular budget will have to be SS/Medicare. Somehow I doubt that the government would stop all other services, there could be serious chaos when this time rolls around but hopefully the Liberty Colony will work out so I won't have to be here for that.
what say you, government will do?
"The plans differ; the planners are all alike"
-Bastiat
What will government do? Probably the same thing it always tends to do in 'budget' crisis - INFLATE. And with eletronic transfer of SS happening, they don't even need to print money either.
SS was never anything more than a Ponzi type scheme so expecting something (of value) 'out' of it is pretty silly. Too bad there aren't more detailed 'how-to' information from places like Argentina and even the USSR after both of these basically defaulted on their money. People survived then too, would be neat to know how those that were in the know managed to weather those times too.
The answer that has kept us afloat is - NO debts (including mortgage), food storage and being energy independent (solar power). Works for us!
Jain
I don't pay Social Security, so I'm putting the money to better use now. I don't give a flip what happens to the suckers who keep paying into it.
Pro Christo et Libertate integre!
The State will force us into a new New Deal.
When SS becomes insolvent the government will seize everyone's 401K in the name of fairness and social justice.
They only need to take a look at Europe for examples. The European governments have been running massive deficits and constantly raising taxes for the past forty years. If they have not been inflating as much as the US in the past ten years is simply because the German electorate fears inflation more than higher taxes, but the ECB is currently seeing to that.
This of course may hamper a little the rampant US militarism but take a look at where present European military budgets stand...
Yes, it's time for the Dr Goebbels show!
I don't understand this worry about Social Security. Yes, it will eventually get to the point where it hasn't collected enough money to pay what it's scheduled to pay. But the entire federal government has been running a deficit for decades on end and you never hear people suggest that soldiers, bureaucrats, mailmen, or politicians will stop getting paid. Why is Social Security held to such a higher standard?
I'll tell you exactly what will happen when that day comes: The government will borrow to pay for peoples' Social Security checks. Just like they have been doing for every other government program.
Retirees are a consistantly reliable voting block, so no politician would dare take away Social Security.
We will never get there. China and India will rule the world by then anyway as the US is bankrupting itself with its militaristic foreign policy.
Social Security will be defaulted on via inflation. You'll still get your $3000/month benefit check, but it'll only buy a loaf of bread.
Taxes will probably also be raised. However, if they raise the tax rate too high, then people will just start working off-the-books.
I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.
Look, financially the U.S. went bankrupt when the federal reserve took over the money supply. We as a nation could overcome this financial delima but we must first rid ourselves of the federal reserve and take back our rights. That my friends can only be done thru bloodshed. The price for freedom is blood. Has always been and probably will always be. The American people are for the most part not willing to die for what they believe so more than likely we will end up a third world nation mired in debt and slaves to the people who wish to exploit us. More so than we are now. It would be good to read two simple books in order to better understand how this will happen and what processes are involved. The two books would be 1984 and animal farm. Think of ot this way, you will bleed to death either working for your masters or working for your freedom, which is the better reason for death?
we must resist the borg
The government could sell mineral and timber rights in its massive land holdings but even that won't be enough. So they'll just inflate until people no longer accept the government's paper and the government can no longer finance the standing army that guarantees people will pay their taxes. They'll try to hold the line by suggesting a break-up along supra-State or State lines but the stampede for the exits will be on at that point. Optimistically, non-state institutions would be evolved enough by then to step into the vacuum without much disruption.
They could just say " we can't manage your money, sorry, you must suffer " and leave it at that.
People need to stop being forced to save, and use their money how they want.
Either that or a civil war against the government by old people. I go with the latter.
Democracy is nothing more than replacing bullets with ballots
If Pro is the opposite of Con. What is the opposite of Progress?
We could do away with the fed and refuse to pay the debt and forget about SS
anonnymous:We could do away with the fed and refuse to pay the debt and forget about SS
That is effectively what will happen, but only after the currency has been devalued to the point that people no longer use it.
ChaseCola:By 2040 100% of the regular budget will have to be SS/Medicare. Somehow I doubt that the government would stop all other services, there could be serious chaos when this time rolls around but hopefully the Liberty Colony will work out so I won't have to be here for that. what say you, government will do?
Oh, I hope they stop being able to pay anything meaningful soon! And part of me will be laughing as old farts get to eat cat food and die in boxes. Why am I being such a heartless ***? I am under the age of 30, and I see what these fucking boomers have done, and what they're precious AARP continues to do. I have spoken to some, on the radio and such, ones who claim to be "libertarian-minded", ones who can see that their receipt of SS checks comes only by theft from me and other productive young people... but they don't care. They paid in, so they're owed it. So long as they get theirs, so long as they get to quit working because they hit some arbitrary age, they don't really care who they screw to do it. They, and a couple generations before them, crafted for themselves a selfishness and a willingness to use the terrible force of government such as had previously been impossible. I hope they fucking starve.
What will "the government" do? What can they do? Their time is growing short. Now I'm mad. See what you did?
JCFolsom:And part of me will be laughing as old farts get to eat cat food and die in boxes... I have spoken to some, on the radio and such... I hope they fucking starve.
I can just imagine how that radio interview went;
JCFolsom: You *bleep* old *bleep* don't even own the *bleep* houses you live in. You *bleep* gained them through *bleep* theft. How can you *bleep* expect to leave them to your *bleep* children and *bleep* expect me to have to *bleep* rent because I can't afford a *bleep* house. You *bleep* don't own the *bleep* world, how can you *bleep* expect to own a *bleep* small portion of the *bleep* world and to keep that off the *bleep* market for *bleep* generations. We *bleep* all own the *bleep* world *bleep* collectivly so you *bleep* claiming *bleep* ownership is *bleep* stealing from *bleep* me. I hope you *bleep* die.
Radio announcer: and there you have the libertarian opinion as called in by one of our regular contributers.
JCFolsom:Now I'm mad. See what you did?
Yup. Now you can't find your happy place.
Anonymous Coward:I can just imagine how that radio interview went; JCFolsom: You *bleep* old *bleep* don't even own the *bleep* houses you live in. You *bleep* gained them through *bleep* theft. How can you *bleep* expect to leave them to your *bleep* children and *bleep* expect me to have to *bleep* rent because I can't afford a *bleep* house. You *bleep* don't own the *bleep* world, how can you *bleep* expect to own a *bleep* small portion of the *bleep* world and to keep that off the *bleep* market for *bleep* generations. We *bleep* all own the *bleep* world *bleep* collectivly so you *bleep* claiming *bleep* ownership is *bleep* stealing from *bleep* me. I hope you *bleep* die. Radio announcer: and there you have the libertarian opinion as called in by one of our regular contributers.
It wasn't an interview, just a call in. And I don't bring up my geoism stuff, because it is a controversy all its own and would detract from the main point. You people seem to have trouble keeping your threads straight.
And, I know better than to cuss on the radio. And, of course, I rather tone down the message for those to whom the idea that income redistribution is wrong is new.
Now, now,
I was only funnin' ya.
I honestly don't think the United States will exist in 2040 so Social Security wont really matter. The US will either be part of some UN-led One World Government or it will break apart into several different states. There might still be a US if that happened but it would be much smaller than it is today. But that's my opinion but I think there is a lot more evidence that supports a single world government than a break up of the Union.
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. " -- Samuel Adams.
Why? I've got lots of proof that it is in the making. To deny it is stupid.
Harksaw:I'll tell you exactly what will happen when that day comes: The government will borrow to pay for peoples' Social Security checks. Just like they have been doing for every other government program
But borrow from whom? Physical money isn't the problem - you can print that by the shipload without much problem. The problem is stuff like food and wood and you can't borrow a hamburger from your unborn children. You have to borrow a hamburger from someone who's prepared to make it for you today and be paid for it tomorrow (most likely by your unborn children).
So a government running consistently unbalanced budgets and cruising into debt implies a contract between two groups of people:
a) The guys who are willing to make the stuff for you now and accept payment tomorrow
b) The poor suckers paying tomorrow
This basically amounts to Chinese savers today accepting American's promises to sell off their children in the form of slave laborers as soon as they're old enough to work. Nice!
Well, not that nice, but perhaps feasible as long as the Chinese trust that promise and the kids don't finally realize what the heck is going on and refuse to participate in this rather twisted arrangement by, for example, emmigrating to a country that is a little less messed up and doesn't have the same level of completely unsustainable debt.
As one of the previous posters points out, you only have to look to Europe to get a taste of how this kind of thing might play out. You've got all the PIGS going bankrupt and a few of other countries that actually have balanced budgets (most of the time). People in Europe are free to move from the PIGS to the other countries and no doubt will start to do so more an more over time as they realize that they're getting more and more for their labour elsewhere. In the long run, there are only two solutions for the PIGS - they either get handouts from the other countries (but I don't think the other countries actually have enough money to cover the shortfall, so that's not really an option) or they cut their budgets (and with them a whole bunch of current "social benefits"). Frankly, I'm looking forward to such a time - it would be a breath of fresh to have government powers cut back in such countries. The problem is that they usually cut back stuff like military and education before they cut back things like social security... so emmigration still remains the best option for most of the citizens of these countries.
What will happen in the US is a bit harder to say, since most Americans aren't free to go anywhere else (except maybe Canada - can US citizens live/work in Canada without any special visa requirements?). Maybe it will play out more like the USSR when this went bankrupt back in the late 80s and early 90s? Who knows... most people think that countries are too big to go bust, but this is not the case. Closer to the truth is that most people can't conceive of what that implies - they have a really hard time fitting the idea of a bankrupt country in their minds... they seem to presume that the resources of countries are inexhaustable. But we only have to look back as far as the collapse of the USSR to find an example of a country actually going bankrupt, so countries are certainly not too big to fail...
scineram:^This world government conspiracism is just stupid.
I respectfully disagree. There are groups with globalist goals operating at the highest levels. Generally "the people" do not approve of such goals. Nonetheless, the goals proceed with law, commerce and propaganda as the tools of manipulation.
I love having a libertarian perspective, but my God am I disappointed that many of the libertarians who came before me have mostly written books. It's put us way behind the eight ball of influencing change.
LvMI is a big step in the right direction, but where are the wealthy libertarians setting up liberty oriented businesses and foundations?
That's the attitude that the globalists are counting on. Disbelief and disengagement.
scineram:No one would accept world government, not in this millennia. Also practically impossible.
True. You wouldn't get all of Europe under one flag, either - a European Union would not be accepted by the various countries, nor could it be made effective. NAFTA would never be acceptable to the USAian people. The United Nations was a failed experiment, long since defunct.
If you think that a worldwide government would fail because the citizens don't want it, take a look at the last 50 or so voter referendums in the USA, and see how many were overturned or superceded, clearly against the citizen's wishes.
"By the people, for the people" was a charmin' phrase 140 years ago, but he was speaking in favor of a war instigated to take territory and control of the people living there. It's just as high-sounding now, but even less reflective of reality.
Danno - amazed at what some people will believe.
The avatar graphic text:
"Are you coming to bed?"
"No, this is important"
"What?"
"Someone is wrong on the internet."
In response to the original question - I expect it'll be lost in the shuffle when the currency collapses. Can you say "Wemar Mark"?
Danno, preparing to light his cigarettes with currency.....
Yes, totally impossible. I mean, NO ONE would accept some organization that judges you in some "international court" (International Court of Justice) or can overrule your trade regulations (World Trade Organization) or can slap sanctions on you because you didn't do what they said (United Nations) or declare war on you for violating those sanctions (United Nations Security Council). And no one would accept an international police force that doesn't have to obey the laws of member nations to capture international criminals (INTERPOL). The truth is that a world government is being set up and much of its infrastructure is already in place. We already have courts, security councils, governing councils, banks (World Bank and International Bank of Settlements), health organizations (World Health Organization and Codex Alimentarius). Trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and others are simply a means to harmonize the economies of different nations so that world government is easier. The Security and Prosperity Partnership Agreement of the United States, Mexico and Canada has already set up working groups to harmonize the different traffic laws, trade laws, manufacturing and transport laws in the different nations. Canada and the US also want to spend billions building up Mexico's infrastructure to make integration easier.
Under the European Union is currently run by the European Parliament, Commission and the Council of the European Union but under the Lisbon Treaty the EU would become simplified. The EU is a creature that has been in the works for over 50 years starting life as the European Coal and Steel Community in 1951 and then the European Economic Community in 1957. By 1992 the EU was in full bloom and if the Irish hadn't of defeated the new Lisbon Treaty the EU would have become THE government of Europe with member states having to cede most of their sovereignty to the EU.
Now we have a new South American Union, we have the African Union, Australia and most of Asia are in the process of establishing their own Union, a North American Union is quickly coming about with SPP and the NAFTA Superhighway. There are a lot of powerful people out there that want a single world government because it is to their benefit.
The Baby Boomers will accept it and do so enthusiastically once it's revealed as the only way to enlarge the tax base enough to pay their entitlements. Hence, the big push for erasure of national borders and a global market.
Byzantine: scineram:No one would accept world government, not in this millennia. Also practically impossible. The Baby Boomers will accept it and do so enthusiastically once it's revealed as the only way to enlarge the tax base enough to pay their entitlements. Hence, the big push for erasure of national borders and a global market.
Perhaps. The Europeans aren't showing themselves to be so enthusiastic about welcoming Turkey into the European Union. The above is about the only argument that they seem to find in favour of such, but it doesn't seem to be enough to make them "enthusiastic" and certainly not enthusiastic enough to actually do anything. For the time, they're clinging to their old way of life waiting for a miracle - talking about changes without being actually willing to make any.
I get the feeling most Europeans would rather accept higher taxes and less government services than a "change to their culture". They're socialists to the last man!
I too believe that it is not a conspiracy but our leaders have come out promoting a new world order and ideas of joining north america with canada, mexico and south america. No its not a conspiracy the do it in the open for all to see.
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