What is holding back the electric car?

I was wondering if someone here had insight into the issues surrounding electric (and other alternatives) cars? I've been looking for an alternative to petrol cars - due to lower running costs - but the market seems to be oddly lacking. I see no obstacle to someone building a small 2-seater electric car that has decent range, but all I've been able to find are small van-looking contraptions that will probably tip over at the first gust of wind. Other alternatives, like hydrogen, are horrendous to adopt with no fuel network in place.

I believe some electric cars are currently in the works.  http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehicles/fleet-information.php

The main problems to me seem to be lack of range and lack of speed or size.  Most of the electrics I've seen have a top speed near 60 mph (phoenix is advertising 95 mph) and I drive to and from work everyday on a highway with a 75 mph speed limit.  150 mile range is also common, and long recharge times are as well.  The technology is getting there though it sounds like.

The fact that oil is cheap and plentiful is holding back electric cars.  Even heavily taxed gas costs less than milk (and in some cases, water).  When oil truly becomes scarce, then its price will rise, and people will then naturally embrace alternative energy (not because it's cleaner, but because it's cheaper), including the ugly, expensive, hassle-full, electric cars that currently don't sell (and have no effect on "greenhouse emissions" in any case since the electricity that powers them is generated by petroleum products anyway) .  No frightened central planning committee needed.

 

The biggest problem with electric cars is batteries.  Battery technology really hasn't advanced that much in the last 20 or 30 years.  Until they can develop batteries that can store more energy and charge more efficiently it might be a while until we see an electric car that can go the distance at a good speed.

 

Check out these if you haven't, they are quite promising:

Electric and Electric Hybrid:

http://www.aptera.com

The electric version uses all electricity to power the car, whereas the electric hybrid version uses a small gas engine to produce the electricity to power the car.  This car totally breaks the mold.

All Electric:

http://www.teslamotors.com

Advocacy Site:

http://www.pluginamerica.com/

Although they are asking the government for fuel and mpg mandates, they do have a plethora if information on different car projects that turn priuses into 100+ mpg and the like.

Let me know what you think!

ViennaSausage:

Let me know what you think!

Buy a real car (with power, pickup, looks and cachet), and let someone else deal with the hassles.  Don't worry about non-problems invented by a consortium of power-grabbing governments and rent-seeking firms.

Can you elaborate?  What sorts of non-problems?  What hassles?

ViennaSausage:

Let me know what you think!

The most important thing is to get government out of the way as quickly and completely as possible. Then the price system can correctly communicate the relative scarcity of resources, so that we can know whether going through the hassle and expense of getting an electric car is worth it compared to using gasoline.

The cars are cute, yes, but I have to carry both of us, both kids in car-seats, the stroller and chairs just to go to soccer on Saturday morning. And I'd like to go shopping on the way home. A three-wheeled eurotrash design just doesn't cut it.

 

ViennaSausage:

Can you elaborate?  What sorts of non-problems?  What hassles?

Non-problems:  global warming, CO2 emissions, carbon footprint, peak oil

Hassles:  weak engines leading to a lack of pickup/acceleration leading to a lack of manueverability leading to more accidents, finding a place to recharge (using petroleum-created electricity), inability to go on long road trips, extremely limited body styles

 

ViennaSausage:

Can you elaborate?  What sorts of non-problems?  What hassles?

The inevitable problems and hassles that come whenever someone brings something new to the marketplace.  First adopters of any technology generally get a whole host of problems with their cool new toys if it is genuinely new.  Look at the original hybrids, or CVT's (which are still crap if you ask Edmund's reviewers) or any rollout of a new software version.  With an electric car batteries are more expensive, your trips are shorter, and fillup times are longer (if you can find a place to do it at all).  Add to all that, as someone mentioned earlier, you still have to get that electricity somehow, which in the vast majority of cases is going to come from the same natural resources you are worried about using up.

 

CurtHowland:

The most important thing is to get government out of the way as quickly and completely as possible. Then the price system can correctly communicate the relative scarcity of resources, so that we can know whether going through the hassle and expense of getting an electric car is worth it compared to using gasoline.

Ironically it was government which caused the onslaught of cars in the first place.

CurtHowland:

The cars are cute, yes, but I have to carry both of us, both kids in car-seats, the stroller and chairs just to go to soccer on Saturday morning. And I'd like to go shopping on the way home. A three-wheeled eurotrash design just doesn't cut it.

The original questioner was asking for 2 seater specs.  I was answer that question.

maxpot46:

The fact that oil is cheap and plentiful is holding back electric cars.

I would argue that there is already a market for electric cars. Especially in Europe. Which is why I was wondering if it was merely a question of the technology not being ready. Perhaps I'm getting paranoid, but it seems everything is held back by governments. Take for example diesel cars in Finland: the Greens are in government and all the major parties swear by environmentalism, but they have still failed to remove punitive taxation of diesel cars and are keeping more polluting petrol cars in use.

Seems the environmentalists are quite worried about the environment when it comes to taxing people, but less so when it comes to actually reducing pollution (and the interest drops to zero when it involves losing tax income). And this includes the 'real' environmentalists as well, since they usually hold unto some irrational expectation that pink unicorns will provide all the power in the world and there is no need for intermediate solutions, like evil nuclear power. That, or they just want everyone to live in vegan communes. Those that survive the resulting famine, that is.

That's because it's not about the environment, it's about power.  THERE IS NO PROBLEM.  Any market that exists for these cars was created by the government with their regulations, brainwashing and taxation/enmity/fear of oil.

 

maxpot46:

Non-problems:  global warming, CO2 emissions, carbon footprint, peak oil

These are debatable, and I understand many if not most libertarians thinke these are non-problems.  We can debate/discuss if you like on another thread.

maxpot46:

weak engines leading to a lack of pickup/acceleration leading to a lack of manueverability leading to more accidents,

The Tesla was actually designed as a sports car.  It's acceleration is on par with many petro-sports car.

As for the other arguements sans body styles, the original questioner was looking for a 2 seater with decent range.  I was giving suggestions in response to that question.  But for the time being, extreme long distances and lack of recharging stations appear to be hindering their adoption, not to mention governmental regulations.

I must point out, however, that the two options I suggested utilize just a plain old plug to recharge.  Wherever there is an outlet, there is a place for recharge.

Stolz25:

The inevitable problems and hassles that come whenever someone brings something new to the marketplace.  First adopters of any technology generally get a whole host of problems with their cool new toys if it is genuinely new.

I can actually attest to this.  I bought the Second Generation Prius when it came out, and before they were cool and green chic.  My thinking was that since it was G2, it would have less bugs than the G1.  However, since a lot of the technology was no computerized, I was expecting some bugs.  However, knowing the quality and customer service Toyota had built with there petro cars, I knew I was in good hands if there was ever a problem.  Toyota took car of all the bugs.  After the first few bugs, I haven't ran into any in the past 4 years. 

IMHO, the first adopters in anything play a vital role.  They are the risky ones, the ones willing to take the chance on something new.  They don't know if it is going to catch on, or if its doomed to failure.  They take a guess that it will succeed.  (Obviously, some just do it to be the first).

It just seems to me that pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar, you will get a better gas-powered car. 

 

maxpot46:

Any market that exists for these cars was created by the government with their regulations, brainwashing and taxation/enmity/fear of oil.

Take this quote and transpose it to the early 1900's.  Ironically it was government who caused the onslaught of cars in the first place.

maxpot46:

It just seems to me that pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar, you will get a better gas-powered car. 

I'd agree, though the Tesla Roadster's 3,9 second 0-60 is quite competitive with other cars in the same price range. But current reasonably priced electric cars aren't proper cars.

Libertas est Veritas:

I'd agree, though the Tesla Roadster's 3,9 second 0-60 is quite competitive with other cars in the same price range. But current reasonably priced electric cars aren't proper cars.

Absolutely, when you take price in the consideration for high performance. 

I am actually intrigued with the ideas behind the aptera.  It breaks the convention of how cars are designed, both in a visual sense, and also technical sense.  If the aptera is successful, more power to them.  However, if it is not, there is much other car companies can learn from their designs.

I think if we hadn't had government subsidised roads and oil in the first place we might not be having this conversation. Maybe we'd be thinking of the next place to whizz to in our flying cars rather than travelling down some restricted pieces of tarmac ;)

Here are more!  Just ran into this a few seconds ago.

http://venturebeat.com/2008/01/10/27-electric-cars-companies-ready-to-take-over-the-road/

So many to choose from, but only the fittest will survive, sans government mandates or intervention.  BTW, just a little tidbit, some of the very first cars in the early 1900's were electric competed with gas.  It was government intervention which lead to gas being the status quo for cars.  The battle continues...

I don't believe anything is holiding back the electric car. Most people want a means of personal conveyance, and don't really care about what goes on behind the scenes to make that happen. The relative few who do care about electric cars are served by the niche players that are already out there.