There's nothing wrong with schools. They just shouldn't be run in a monopolistic fashion, and parents should have choice where to send their kids or to homeschool them.
Periodically the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.
Thomas Jefferson
Cam Nedland: There's nothing wrong with schools. They just shouldn't be run in a monopolistic fashion, and parents should have choice where to send their kids or to homeschool them.
Yeah this.
Democracy for Breakfast:You can't network with such a diverse group of people anywhere else. The workplace is mostly teenagers, dropouts, and low-income adults. Where College has people who have traveled, people from other countries, and a lot of unique characteristics. Everyone is so unique at College, where in High School a lot of people are the same.
D's in highschool, college dropout, I have already made more money than you will 15 years after you graduate statistically speaking.(see gary north's website.) I can't link you to the specifics as you have to pay. Much cheaper than tuition I might add. I'm also educated. I have an extensive network. Sorry, but what you say about college is bs. And everyone in college is just as cookie cutter as those sheep in highschool. Schools are fine, State sponsored and funded schools are almost worthless. That being said there are a few gems that have honest academicians IMO. Gonzaga U and Loyola Colleges have some honest profs with tenure. Also, the University at Bremen is not bad. They are statist, but at least they question it. The main problem. They are way overpriced.
"...The post-totalitarian system contrives to force life into its most probable states...This system serves people only to the extent necessary to ensure that people will serve it
Vaclav Havel
Saan: Democracy for Breakfast:You can't network with such a diverse group of people anywhere else. The workplace is mostly teenagers, dropouts, and low-income adults. Where College has people who have traveled, people from other countries, and a lot of unique characteristics. Everyone is so unique at College, where in High School a lot of people are the same. D's in highschool, college dropout, I have already made more money than you will 15 years after you graduate statistically speaking.(see gary north's website.) I can't link you to the specifics as you have to pay. Much cheaper than tuition I might add. I'm also educated. I have an extensive network. Sorry, but what you say about college is bs. And everyone in college is just as cookie cutter as those sheep in highschool. Schools are fine, State sponsored and funded schools are almost worthless. That being said there are a few gems that have honest academicians IMO. Gonzaga U and Loyola Colleges have some honest profs with tenure. Also, the University at Bremen is not bad. They are statist, but at least they question it. The main problem. They are way overpriced.
What makes you think that the people are cookie-cutter? Most of the people I encountered so far are either serious students or very unique individuals/
"How much math and hard science did you learn in K-12, and how much was history, civics, gym, etc?"
I learned calculus, physics, mechanics, history, political theory and physical training outside of school, for that matter. Anyone with a brain can outdo public schools, and if you're not the kind of person inclined to do these sorts of things on your own, public school is just going to turn into an even bigger idiot - worst of all, an idiot who believes he or she is intelligent.
Frederick the Great“I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later to demonstrate my perfect right.”"Religion is the idol of the mob; it adores everything it does not understand.”
I have learned so much more self teaching myself than I ever learned in 'school'. All public school ever seemed to do was make you memorize dates, numbers, places, for tests. Binge and purge. What a great education.
I work for the public school and you may be shocked at how many of us have our kids in private school. Teachers, administrators, custodians, maintenance. None of us want our kids to go to the schools we work in. That kind of sucks. My kids were in private school for elementary and jr high. Home schooled for high school. I am a single dad so guess who taught them in the home schooling... that's right they taught themselves at their own pace.
I have nothing philosophically against the concept of public school but our system doesn't work to educate. It doesn't even do a good job of indoctrinating. Don't get me wrong, you can learn a lot in public school... but it will be in spite of the system, not because of it.
A cult is a religion with no political power. - Tom Wolfe
Life without music would be an error. - Nietzsche
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - Edward R. Morrow
Tukaram: I have learned so much more self teaching myself than I ever learned in 'school'. All public school ever seemed to do was make you memorize dates, numbers, places, for tests. Binge and purge. What a great education. I work for the public school and you may be shocked at how many of us have our kids in private school. Teachers, administrators, custodians, maintenance. None of us want our kids to go to the schools we work in. That kind of sucks. My kids were in private school for elementary and jr high. Home schooled for high school. I am a single dad so guess who taught them in the home schooling... that's right they taught themselves at their own pace. I have nothing philosophically against the concept of public school but our system doesn't work to educate. It doesn't even do a good job of indoctrinating. Don't get me wrong, you can learn a lot in public school... but it will be in spite of the system, not because of it.
How will we ever get rid of the State Department of Education now?
Getting rid of any government agency is pretty tough. They become big businesses that can pass their own laws! The 'war on drugs' and 'the war on terror' have both spawned huge bureaucracies that won't won't go away with out a huge fight.
If you could actually get people informed and motivated enough to care you can change a lot with elections. But most people have the mall and big screen TV's so who cares what the government does?
Tukaram: Getting rid of any government agency is pretty tough. They become big businesses that can pass their own laws! The 'war on drugs' and 'the war on terror' have both spawned huge bureaucracies that won't won't go away with out a huge fight. If you could actually get people informed and motivated enough to care you can change a lot with elections. But most people have the mall and big screen TV's so who cares what the government does?
You know, I have tried convincing teachers about its wrongness in the past, and it hasn't been successful at all. A few of them were very arrogant on the subject, and felt that "as long as they prepare you for the test, then they are doing the job" or as long as they are making you meet the standards. Teachers here support NCLB.
Democracy for Breakfast:You know, I have tried convincing teachers about its wrongness in the past, and it hasn't been successful at all. A few of them were very arrogant on the subject, and felt that "as long as they prepare you for the test, then they are doing the job" or as long as they are making you meet the standards. Teachers here support NCLB.
I have both an aunt and sister who teach in the public schools here in SC. They both are highly frustrated with the beauracracy and incompetence of administration. Whats funny is that I have seen my sister transform from very liberal free spirit in college into a much more realistic psuedo-libertarian after college. I have the public school system to thank for that. I remember we used to argue about the role of government in our lives with her always advocating for a government role in solving social problems. Today we agree on most things, to one degree or another.
From what I can tell the good teachers really, really want more flexability in education. The few I have talked to are pretty receptive to the idea of a more free market approach to providing education. Many of them feel stifled by the controls and standardization of the public system. Discuss with them all the possiblities that will arise in a free market of schools and they can see themselves starting their own schools, developing thier own methods, and being creative. The good teachers will get excited about those possibilities. Administrative workers and bad teachers will not and will say anything to protect their niche in the current system.
How can I get a career in science and research on my own? Is school necessary to develop that knowledge to where I could eventually get jobs in fields of science?
Democracy for Breakfast: How can I get a career in science and research on my own? Is school necessary to develop that knowledge to where I could eventually get jobs in fields of science?
Whats stopping you from participating in the sciences right now? Einstein didn't learn his theory of general relativity. He discovered it by his own merits. There is no one stopping you from doing the same or similar work.
Now if you want to be a member of "Academia" well that may be different. Still there are ways of getting into that as well.
Statism is a religion.
filc: Democracy for Breakfast: How can I get a career in science and research on my own? Is school necessary to develop that knowledge to where I could eventually get jobs in fields of science? Whats stopping you from participating in the sciences right now? Einstein didn't learn his theory of general relativity. He discovered it by his own merits. There is no one stopping you from doing the same or similar work. Now if you want to be a member of "Academia" well that may be different. Still there are ways of getting into that as well.
Meh, I don't think I'll develop my own theory. If I were interesting a job in something like Materials/Chemist scientist, where could I start to get the attention of Business' and find work? Without a College degree.
Exactly. I'm 15, and not less then 1 or 2 years ago, I was in a public school. There was sex and violence. It was all to distracting, and I didn't learn anything. In-fact, close to nothing. I leave and get home schooled. I start learning at a rate 10x faster compared to public. And I started to find an interest in economics surprisingly. I never liked any subject, and I mean any. I am learning things that I wouldn't have learned for at least 4+ years in public school (in-fact, probably never would have learned of Austrian economics.)
It's funny. When ever I debate a socialist on schools, they tell me that I went to a poor public school. I actually went to a wealthy one.
Amadeus: probably never would have learned of Austrian economics.)
probably never would have learned of Austrian economics.)
There is no "probably" about it.
Amadeus: Exactly. I'm 15, and not less then 1 or 2 years ago, I was in a public school. There was sex and violence. It was all to distracting, and I didn't learn anything. In-fact, close to nothing. I leave and get home schooled. I start learning at a rate 10x faster compared to public. And I started to find an interest in economics surprisingly. I never liked any subject, and I mean any. I am learning things that I wouldn't have learned for at least 4+ years in public school (in-fact, probably never would have learned of Austrian economics.) It's funny. When ever I debate a socialist on schools, they tell me that I went to a poor public school. I actually went to a wealthy one.
Well, the sex and violence is because of a lack of rules and control in the school. How can any Libertarian favor a set of strict rules in an institution?
Democracy for Breakfast: Well, the sex and violence is because of a lack of rules and control in the school. How can any Libertarian favor a set of strict rules in an institution?
property rights, property rights, property rights...
I brought this up before to you in this thread on the previous page and it has come up again. Who's property is it? (in the previous case, i had asked about you letting a boss or manager know about the situation - the property owner).
"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe
Saan: D's in highschool, college dropout, I have already made more money than you will 15 years after you graduate statistically speaking.(see gary north's website.) I can't link you to the specifics as you have to pay.
D's in highschool, college dropout, I have already made more money than you will 15 years after you graduate statistically speaking.(see gary north's website.) I can't link you to the specifics as you have to pay.
Hello, Sir!I'm also a subscriber of Dr. North's and I'd like to know more about the resources that you found particularly helpful in building your fortune. So, if you could provide a direct link to this specific information, I'd very much appreciate it. Thanks!
Wanderer: There's nothing wrong with schools. They just shouldn't be run in a monopolistic fashion, and parents should have choice where to send their kids or to homeschool them.
I think I might drop out once I decide what I want to do. However, College is a great place to indulge in information and learning. College libraries often have a diverse database of information. On that contrary, the Gen. Ed classes KILL IT for me. I am in remedial math, public speaking, and entry level english. all the classes are boring as hell, and a waste of time.
However, what do you guys think about Independent Studies in College? I think they are a great way to learn because cirriculum's suck. After doing more research, I agree with you guys that a Degree is worthless, however I feel a little helpless without the guidance of a College, and the people you meet at one.
Democracy for Breakfast:I am in remedial math, public speaking, and entry level english. all the classes are boring as hell, and a waste of time.
Well if you are in college, why did you choose these? Or are they general ed requirements?
'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition
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