Political Theory

Re: Possible exception to self ownership axiom

PsychoactiveD — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:14:27 GMT

What if you owned an animal you could not control? Even if you had it in a cage you cannot 'fully control' its actions. Does that mean you don't own the animal?

Re: Possible exception to self ownership axiom

Jon Irenicus — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:26:32 GMT

Yeah, good point.

-Jon

Re: Possible exception to self ownership axiom

JonBostwick — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:27:00 GMT

Jon Irenicus:

No, they do own themselves - however, like children, a custodian might be appointed to aid them.

-Jon

Im wary of the word appointed, guardianship would be homesteaded, thus self-appointed.

Homesteading is applicable here because it prevents someone from holding the claim solely to exclude others from exercising it. (The same problem that homesteading prevents in land ownership)

Re: Possible exception to self ownership axiom

MacFall — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:49:00 GMT

Jon Irenicus:

No, they do own themselves - however, like children, a custodian might be appointed to aid them.

-Jon

Knowing lawyers (in particular, one on this forum), he would object to that on the principle that it doesn't involve the invocation of positive law words written down on paper by a government violent gang of thugs.

Re: Possible exception to self ownership axiom

Jon Irenicus — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:24:54 GMT

No, they do own themselves - however, like children, a custodian might be appointed to aid them.

-Jon

Possible exception to self ownership axiom

MatthewWilliam — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:59:09 GMT

A soon-to-be lawyer friend of mine tells me that self-ownership is a misconception. We only have what the law calls 'self-autonomy'. I proved to him that this is self-ownership in all but name, as the same laws that protect property are the same that protect people. What we call 'malicious damage to property' is called 'assault' when applied to people. 'Kidnapping' is analogous to 'theft'. 'Trespassing' applies to both people and objects. He conceded there was a 'fine line' between self-ownership and self-autonomy.

We then agreed on the definition of 'ownership' as full control of the object in question. However he claimed that there are persons who can't exercise 'full control' of themselves, like the mentally ill, dementia patients and the incontinent, therefore they don't own themselves.

Lawyers.