Economics Questions

Re: What would your plan be?

Anonymous Coward — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:22:24 GMT

Stranger:
They didn't have a choice over what the future value of money would be. Had the government continued inflating, the mortgages could have been refinanced and the value of the houses would have been watered down by wage increases due to inflation.

If they took their heads out of their collective asses and read just one article on this site they could have a very good quess at what would happen at the tail end of a boom when the government starts to close the money tap.

It's not like the same thing doesn't happen every eight years or so.

Stranger:
There is nothing foolish about what the banks did. Under the rules in place, it was perfectly rational. They were as killed off by government as any other business victim of government policy.

So not only are you for socializing their losses but you also believe they should have preference over everyone else when it comes to monetary policy.

Ever heard of moral hazard which means that bankers can act foolishly?

I really hope you're just playing devil's advocate here.

Re: What would your plan be?

katja328 — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:11:38 GMT

Stranger:

They didn't have a choice over what the future value of money would be. Had the government continued inflating, the mortgages could have been refinanced and the value of the houses would have been watered down by wage increases due to inflation.

There is nothing foolish about what the banks did. Under the rules in place, it was perfectly rational. They were as killed off by government as any other business victim of government policy.

They might not have had a choice over what the future value of money would be but who cares? It doesn't change the fact that they engaged in risky business, loosened their lending guidelines and loaned sums of money to folks who shouldn't have been loaned such large sums in the first place.

I am going to make my statement from earlier again, as a business you bear a risk of losing money! And it's not "the people's" responsibility to bail out those businesses that lose money!

Re: What would your plan be?

Juan — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:49:43 GMT

They didn't have a choice over what the future value of money would be.

Irrelevant.

Had the government continued inflating, the mortgages could have been refinanced and the value of the houses would have been watered down by wage increases due to inflation.

What ?? More inflation means, among other negative things, lower real wages. You just keep on advocating more socialism. Ridiculous!!

They were as killed off by government as any other business victim of government policy.

Awww, poor things. "America's Persecuted Minority: Big Business".

Re: What would your plan be?

Stranger — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:25:18 GMT

katja328:

Foolishly lending large amounts of money to people who buy houses they can't afford is not really the same as having a tariff imposed upon. The banks did have a choice whether they would loan or not.

They didn't have a choice over what the future value of money would be. Had the government continued inflating, the mortgages could have been refinanced and the value of the houses would have been watered down by wage increases due to inflation.

There is nothing foolish about what the banks did. Under the rules in place, it was perfectly rational. They were as killed off by government as any other business victim of government policy.

Re: What would your plan be?

Jon Irenicus — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:57:38 GMT

Ex-Republican?

-Jon

Re: What would your plan be?

marcbragh — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:26:15 GMT

by sending up a smoke-screen issue like gay marriage, silly. besides, you can't change horses mid-hurricane...

my plan is this: encourage them to continue with what they're doing, pointing out how well of a job the stimulus package has done. After all, it was 100% effective in being absorbed by commodity prices. Since absorption completed, retail gasoline has dropped rather quickly, but not as quickly as it should have in relation to oil. And why has oil dropped so much!? Because of our “stronger” dollar. Which is only “stronger” because the mega-socialist currencies of Europe can’t pretend to survive as long as we free-market-until-we-get-scared socialists can. So let the world collapse and pick-up the pieces while fighting nuclear mutants off with my golden hatchet.

No, what the people want is bloodshed, the bailout plan’s passage has proven irrelevant. If I had my party – we’d be sending dodd, frank, pelosi, a couple justices, bernkanke, paulson, bush, fdr (posthumously), that guy from russia, trichet, and oj simpson – all to jail. And we’d keep them there until they promised to take the government seriously and stop believing in magic & faith.

After all, we’re a nation UNDER GOD – and who has more money than God? Trickle down, anyone?

But if sending people to jail to restore investors faith in our economy & divine monetary capital infusions prove unsuccessful: I would simply remind everyone that their money was never worth anything in the first place – so why quit deluding ourselves now?

And if Plan C doesn’t work, two words: Circus Maximus

Because I’d rather not put the energy into explaining the fundamental flaws in *having a government run the economy* *based solely on consumer strength* and *artificially inflating asset prices* by *debt*.

Re: What would your plan be?

Morty — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:36:01 GMT

katja328:
I believe that Joe Sixpack and average Jane wouldn't allow it. After all, they have been so brainwashed by the current system in place and are actually quite comfortable with no responsibility. I think they would need to be weaned away as to not revolt

How did I get into power if the average person opposes my positions?

Re: What would your plan be?

Paul — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:13:57 GMT

katja328:

Most of us are against government intervention, however, I believe we can't just turn it off from one day to the next, but it has to be a process.

Given the current global economic situation, if you were in charge, what would your plan look like?

"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice." Just push the button.

Re: What would your plan be?

krazy kaju — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:41:59 GMT

GilesStratton:

Indeed.

"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practise".

Gradualism in theory is just a crappy theory, IMO. A lot of the times, certain regulations exist to prevent the bat pitfalls of other regulations (e.g. subsidies for hiring the mentally ill due to minimum wages). If you just remove one or two at a time, people will see the negative effects of one set of regulations being removed (like the subsidies) and demand that be reinstated.

Re: What would your plan be?

hayekianxyz — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:23:57 GMT

krazy kaju:

Gradual change is a farce. If there's one thing that Milton Friedman was right about, it was shock therapy.

Indeed.

"Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practise".

Re: What would your plan be?

Juan — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:20:54 GMT

Also, the banks were quite happy lending money because it was not their money anyway. It was 'money' created out of thin air - at least partially.

Re: What would your plan be?

katja328 — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:13:36 GMT

Stranger:

You say this like there was no manipulation involved at all. What do you think would happen to the computer industry if government policy changed and imposed a 100% tariff on computers? Would you say the computer businesses always ran the risk of losing their investment?

If you have a business you run a risk of losing your investment. It doesn't matter if you are in the computer business, oil business, washing machine business or phone business. Having a business, running a business comes with risk. That's why there is something called "risk management".

Foolishly lending large amounts of money to people who buy houses they can't afford is not really the same as having a tariff imposed upon. The banks did have a choice whether they would loan or not.

Re: What would your plan be?

Anonymous Coward — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:53:19 GMT

Juan:
Anonymous Coward:
I'll shed a tear or two for them when I roll my wheelbarrow full of cash to the store to buy a loaf of bread in the not too distant future.
Hm. Do you think that the US is the next Weimar republic ? Yet some prices are going down...just look at the stock market...or oil ? copper ? Even gold is not going up...

They've been pretty busy lately, they'll get around to fixing that soon enough.

Re: What would your plan be?

Juan — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:51:40 GMT

Anonymous Coward:
I'll shed a tear or two for them when I roll my wheelbarrow full of cash to the store to buy a loaf of bread in the not too distant future.

Hm. Do you think that the US is the next Weimar republic ? Yet some prices are going down...just look at the stock market...or oil ? copper ? Even gold is not going up...

Re: What would your plan be?

Anonymous Coward — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:51:28 GMT

Stranger:
You say this like there was no manipulation involved at all. What do you think would happen to the computer industry if government policy changed and imposed a 100% tariff on computers? Would you say the computer businesses always ran the risk of losing their investment?

Are you suggesting that 'we the people' should be held responsible for the losses of the banking industry because the government stuck their collective noses in their business?