Economics Questions

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Conza88 — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:52:33 GMT

Jon Irenicus:

He might mean things like roads &c. Or he might mean special privileges. In the case of the former, he's wrong and libertarians definitely have considered these "benefits". In the case of the latter, it is obviously true that the government can "enable" some businesses, at the expense of others.

-Jon

Ah yea, very good point. "at the expense of others"

I've used Mises, Anti-Capitalist Mentality and the Manifesto for some good inclusions

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Jon Irenicus — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:27:32 GMT

He might mean things like roads &c. Or he might mean special privileges. In the case of the former, he's wrong and libertarians definitely have considered these "benefits". In the case of the latter, it is obviously true that the government can "enable" some businesses, at the expense of others.

-Jon

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Conza88 — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:59:00 GMT

LOL... This was sent out to the students; @ the example.

"Question
Dear Mr --------,
I just want to enquire in regards to the assessment piece I am currently doing (the essay).

I have selected the question should government stay out of business.

When I develop the body of the esssay, can I compare and contrast arguments and finally state my own opinion?

I appreciate any assistance you can provide.

Answer

I would try to avoid the trap of doing a 'pros' and 'cons' style essay. Instead, you should have a clear argument at the beginning and the rest of the essay devoted to demonstrating and supporting the argument, rather than stating your opinion at the end. To the extent that you raise contrary arguments, use them to reinforce your own point. For example you might say: 'Smith (2008, p.1) argues that government actions have unintended negative consequences for business. But this ignores the many positive consequences they have for business'.

Hope this helps."

Would would they mean by positive? lol. What are the usual arguments against a free market / capitalism / non interventionism etc ?

Or I spouse, agruments FOR intervention?

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Conza88 — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:20:51 GMT

Yeah that's what I was going to do. But then provide the link to the complete resource. I guess I realise he won't be able to any of the books at the library... but then they won't exactly go get the books out anyway... lol

Hmmm to make it easier or not for the marker... well it;ll be obvious I haven't plaigarised.. so they can take the time to search it out if they really want to. :)

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Stranger — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:55:31 GMT

Yes it does.

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Jon Irenicus — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:57:49 GMT

A trick: if you're using books or articles that are also published independently of the Mises Institute, use those references instead of the online PDF linked to the LVMI. It's the same book, only this way your references seem more varied. You won't find CUI online - you'll have to buy it. It isn't expensive though.

-Jon

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

liberty student — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:59:56 GMT

Conza, good to see you snuck away from RPF to post here!

I keep recommending Block's "Defending the Undefendable". It's written in a casual, bohemian style that would probably attract just as many liberals as conservatives. The entire book is a series of examples that show how law and regulation create villains out of market actors filling roles and providing for needs in a market economy.

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Conza88 — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:48:47 GMT

Thanks. Wasn't able to find a pdf / text of Capitalism the Unknown by Rand...

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Or a pdf of economics in one lesson. (I have it) It's just the university library doesn't.... LOL.

(I've made suggestions via their online section.. for all ron paul's books and a fair few by mises, rothbard. No reply yet...

I wonder if I'll get deducted for having them all come from mises.org lol..

Hopefully I convert a few people with my write up. I'll let you all know.

Edit: Any further advice, comments, suggestions.. please do. I should use The Road to Serfdom aswell?

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

dsimo04 — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:48:41 GMT

I second Jon's recommendation to research and heavily rely upon Rothbards Power and Market (the latter portion of MES). It may also be helpful, to assume or point out a theory of economic efficiency (it can be as simple as individuals acheiving the highest ends on their value scale) and then restate many of the arguments Rothbard makes and explain exactly how various forms of intervention (government-business relations) make individuals worse off. It may also be amusing to use Bastiat's proposal on behalf of candlemakers to drive your point home.

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Jon Irenicus — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 02:18:24 GMT

Then you should feel free to do some reading in Human Action and Man, Economy and State (especially chapter 12.) Technically, Power & the Market, although now part of MES, counts itself as a separate book, and in it Rothbard dissects numerous arguments in favour of government interventionism. Japan is a good case study as a country where the government has tried to intervene in favour of business, to aid it in innovation &c., and failed, so you might want to look that up.

-Jon

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Conza88 — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 02:08:43 GMT

ClaytonB:
Read Bastiat's The Law. In a very small space, he utterly demolishes all pretentions that the state can somehow benefit business.

Here's the basic argument you need:

- All government activity diverts resources (capital, labor) from the uses to which they would otherwise have been put by free society
- Unless the new uses are more valuable than the old uses plus overhead, there is a net loss of value to society
- What determines value but the free choice of willing buyers? What other than revealed preferences can be a measure of value to society? But if the uses to which the government is now putting resources were in demand, there would be no need to involve the threat of force (all taxation is backed by threat of force) to divert those resources to the new use. So, government always diverts resources from more valued to less valued uses, impoverishing society.
- The only other way to say that the uses to which the government has diverted resources are more valuable than the uses to which free society would have put them is to appeal to the dictate of elites, as has always been done. Today, the elites hide behind the facade of democracy and define democracy to be synonymous with "free society."

Also, consider that large business interests and government are usually in collusion, contrary to popular belief. Think about it: What does Warren Buffet have to gain from competition? He has nothing to gain, and everything to lose from competition. Is it any wonder, then, that a man who became the richest man in the world by trading on the free market, is opposed to free markets? The richest are always going to be the biggest enemies of free trade because they stand to lose the most by it. They also stand to gain the most but they already have money. What they really want is security, and security comes through political power, that is, violent plunder.

Clayton -

Dang, that's an awesome reply thanks .

Thanks for those arguments, I have read it before; but it looks like I must read it again!

Also cheers Byzantine, I'll check out Bureaucracy aswell. The more books that could potentially deal with this the better...

There is a minimum no. of resources you need to use. It's about 8. Want to use as many "worthy" books as possible :)

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Byzantine — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:24:39 GMT

Also, check out Mises' Bureaucracy (it's online at the site). Businesses end up getting run to satisfy bureaucratic dictates rather than customer demand. A good example of this is the airline industry. Since the government regs apply industry-wide, then nobody in the industry needs to innovate. They just pass on the cost to their customers.

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

ClaytonB — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:06:16 GMT

Read Bastiat's The Law. In a very small space, he utterly demolishes all pretentions that the state can somehow benefit business.

Here's the basic argument you need:

- All government activity diverts resources (capital, labor) from the uses to which they would otherwise have been put by free society
- Unless the new uses are more valuable than the old uses plus overhead, there is a net loss of value to society
- What determines value but the free choice of willing buyers? What other than revealed preferences can be a measure of value to society? But if the uses to which the government is now putting resources were in demand, there would be no need to involve the threat of force (all taxation is backed by threat of force) to divert those resources to the new use. So, government always diverts resources from more valued to less valued uses, impoverishing society.
- The only other way to say that the uses to which the government has diverted resources are more valuable than the uses to which free society would have put them is to appeal to the dictate of elites, as has always been done. Today, the elites hide behind the facade of democracy and define democracy to be synonymous with "free society."

Also, consider that large business interests and government are usually in collusion, contrary to popular belief. Think about it: What does Warren Buffet have to gain from competition? He has nothing to gain, and everything to lose from competition. Is it any wonder, then, that a man who became the richest man in the world by trading on the free market, is opposed to free markets? The richest are always going to be the biggest enemies of free trade because they stand to lose the most by it. They also stand to gain the most but they already have money. What they really want is security, and security comes through political power, that is, violent plunder.

Clayton -

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Conza88 — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:46:05 GMT

Yeah I've read Hazlitt's stuff. For the proper role of govt, I'll probably use Bastiat's "The Law".

Will check Rand's work on capitalism, and Mises "Socialism"

Should I be looking at Human Action, or Road to Serfdom - go both of those, just got to read them... lol

Any other suggestions / advice?

cheers

Re: Does government enable or constrain business?

Jon Irenicus — Thu, 04 Sep 2008 02:04:03 GMT

I can't remember which exactly, but I think either Mises's Liberalism or his Omnipotent Government (they deal with the way in which middle-of-the-road policies degenerate into socialism) are books you should be looking at. Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson deals with the matter of unintended consequences of economic policies, so you should consider it as well. All are available online. Rand has some good essays in her book Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal too. If you're advanced and want some more in-depth arguments, Mises provides them in Socialism and Hoppe in A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism.

-Jon