Economics Questions

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Torsten — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:29:14 GMT

It has been a while. Actually I have been to Zimbabwe during October to explore opportunities in Mining (Chrome, Diamonds, Gold, Platinum group metals). One pays amounts between Z$ 10.000 to 1.000.000 for daily expensives. Rands and US Dollars are accepted and used as well. The prices on menues of Restaurants go up daily. Many shops are empty and many goods are traded on the Black market. Zimbabweans can only draw Z$50.000 per day from their bank accounts in cash and business is mainly conducted with cheques.

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Torsten — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:34:28 GMT

Wren:
You're correct, Camlon. The monopolistic competition model is more appropriate in this case than is the perfect competition one, exactly for the reasons you laid out

It seems they came to some kind of an arrangement in Zimbabwe.

Zimbabwe Civil Society Groups Take Stock Of Power-Sharing Deal

By Jonga Kandemiiri & Carole Gombakomba
Washington
19 September 2008

Members of Zimbabwe's National Constitutional Assembly met on Friday in Harare to review the power-sharing agreement signed by the country's major parties and concluded that the accord brings little real change to the political landscape.

The NCA said President Robert Mugabe will exercise considerably more power in the new government than incoming prime minister Morgan Tsvangirai of the Movement for Democratic Change, long the opposition party before its combined formations secured a majority in parliament in general elections in March of this year.

The NCA also took issue with Article 6 of the accord regarding a new constitution, saying that the section refers to a draft constitution compiled in 2007 by ZANU-PF and MDC officials in the town of Kariba, not to the "people-driven" version the NCA wants.

NCA spokesman Maddock Chivasa told reporter Jonga Kandemiiri of VOA's Studio 7 for Zimbabwe that the organization will keep pressing for a people-driven constitution.

The 22 member organizations of the Crisis in Zimbabwe Coalition also met on Friday and agreed a lot remains to be done on the political front despite the power-sharing accord.

Issues taken up by the group included the new constitution and the role of parliament.

Crisis in Zimbabwe Coalition Spokesman Macdonald Lewanika told reporter Carole Gombakomba of VOA's Studio 7 for Zimbabwe that while civil society was not directly involved in the talks, there is a lot of work to be done rebuilding democracy.

http://voanews.com/english/Africa/Zimbabwe/2008-09-19-voa45.cfm

I plan to visit Zimbabwe next month.

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Torsten — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:15:33 GMT

Camlon:
Well, I have a dispute with my teacher about Zimbabwe. Most of us know that Robert Mugabe tried to remove the white ownership of farms with quite a lot of negative consequences. I'm looking for possible reasons for why he choose to do that. We both agree that one of the reasons is that he want to distrubute the income.

He actually didn't choose it. It were some of his supporters that did do so. He just chose not to oppose them invading the farms of White people in Zimbabwe. Nevertheless he may have political reasons for his choices. Actually he got more pressure from the opposition MDC. The MDC was mainly driven by middle class Black Zimbabweans. However they did get their financial supports from wealthy White Zimbabweans. Mugabe had a choice to either crush on these middle class Blacks or dry them out financially. He chose to dry out the MDC financially by allowing the White farms to be invaded. That this ruined Zimbabwes economy is of course another matter.

Mugabe may not know how to manage an agricultural economy correctly. But he certainly knows how political power works and how to stay in office.

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Wren — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 09:20:26 GMT

Camlon, Austrian economics is not "conservative." What really separates Austrian economics from other neo-classical economics is the way the subject is studied. Check out some works under Methodology in the Literature section if you want to know what I'm talking about. Austrians don't accept/use stuff like perfect competition or imperfect competition. You can read Austrian analysis and critrique of such here (read the 10th chapter, "Monopoloy and Competition," and in particular section 5, "The Theory of Monopolistic or Imperfect Competition")

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Wren — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 08:45:11 GMT

You're correct, Camlon. The monopolistic competition model is more appropriate in this case than is the perfect competition one, exactly for the reasons you laid out. Has your teacher told you why he disagrees with you on this issue?

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Jon Irenicus — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:32:22 GMT

Well, the only thing I know about Austrian Economics is that it's conservative.

No, it isn't. The founding fathers of both Austrianism and neo-Austrianism were classical liberals, and repudiated conservatism.

I didn't come here because you are doing Austrian economics, but because you talk economics and will not answer my question with arguments not based on economics. To say it another way. This is the only economic forum I have seen on the web.

We consider theories of imperfect competition to be largely nonsense, even in the abstract. So no one here will argue based on such constructs. I'm not even sure you're correct within the confines of neoclassical theory itself.

I am looking at the economic arguments for doing it. Whatever, Mugabe had as intention isn't interesting, but you made me realize I should change my heading a bit. And I don't see why you suddenly think i'm stupid now.

We do?

-Jon

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

liberty student — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:25:41 GMT

Camlon:
Well, the only thing I know about Austrian Economics is that it's conservative.

No.

Camlon:
I didn't come here because you are doing Austrian economics, but because you talk economics and will not answer my question with arguments not based on economics. To say it another way. This is the only economic forum I have seen on the web.

Fair enough.

Camlon:
And I don't see why you suddenly think i'm stupid now.

Unfortunately, a few of the intellectual geniuses here waste the platform as an opportunity to spread their ideology, and may inadvertently crap on anyone new who doesn't know a lot about economics, libertarianism or Austrian Econ.

Welcome to Mises!

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Camlon — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:13:06 GMT

Well, the only thing I know about Austrian Economics is that it's conservative. I didn't come here because you are doing Austrian economics, but because you talk economics and will not answer my question with arguments not based on economics. To say it another way. This is the only economic forum I have seen on the web.

I am looking at the economic arguments for doing it. Whatever, Mugabe had as intention isn't interesting, but you made me realize I should change my heading a bit. And I don't see why you suddenly think i'm stupid now.

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

pairunoyd — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:07:29 GMT

Byzantine:
And you were doing so well ...

lol. That was my EXACT thought!

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

ikester8 — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 15:07:25 GMT

Camlon:
I'm looking for possible reasons for why he choose to do that.

Did the thought, "Mugabe correctly decided he could get away with it?" ever come up? This has nothing to do with the economics of anything. It is about naked power. Rothbard's dictum is once again proved: the State is no different than a criminal gang writ large. Any justification or discussion has to take this into account.

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

krazy kaju — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 23:15:06 GMT

Byzantine:

College seems unbearably Marxist these days. It was already bloody awful when I was there in the late 80's. I imagine your assignment next year will be to analyze why Stalin needed to execute peasant farmers who withheld crops from the farming combine. Now, sure I can come up with a coherent-sounding justification for mass murder and theft, but in the meantime my brain is screaming, why isn't this assignment about the best way to put a bullet in a murderous tyrant's head?

That's another assignment where you have to mathematically determine the utility brought from assassinating Stalin, the marginal cost of the bullet, etc.

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

liberty student — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:07:40 GMT

Byzantine:
Now, sure I can come up with a coherent-sounding justification for mass murder and theft, but in the meantime my brain is screaming, why isn't this assignment about the best way to put a bullet in a murderous tyrant's head?

Because then people might think such treatment applies to the tyrants they live under, not just those of people in far away lands.

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Jon Irenicus — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:01:02 GMT

How familiar are you exactly with Austrian economics?

-Jon

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Byzantine — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:07:16 GMT

Camlon:
I also think that "too much profit" can be used in this case and yes, I took a look at the other threads. That's because this profit often went abroad to buy goods they couldn't get in their country, instead of going back into the country. This will cause GDP to further decrease and as unemplyment was allready large, then that's negative.

And you were doing so well ...

Re: Dispute about Zimbabwe

Camlon — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:15:17 GMT

Anyway, I talked to him and he seemed to accept it. I thought he was going to get mad, but he didn't and that was good. I also think that "too much profit" can be used in this case and yes, I took a look at the other threads. That's because this profit often went abroad to buy goods they couldn't get in their country, instead of going back into the country. This will cause GDP to further decrease and as unemplyment was allready large, then that's negative.

Zimbabwe Civil Society Groups Take Stock Of Power-Sharing Deal
By Jonga Kandemiiri & Carole Gombakomba Washington 19 September 2008