Economics Questions

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

anonnymous — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:28:16 GMT

scineram:
^This world government conspiracism is just stupid.

I too believe that it is not a conspiracy but our leaders have come out promoting a new world order and ideas of joining north america with canada, mexico and south america. No its not a conspiracy the do it in the open for all to see.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

jimmy — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:06:08 GMT

Byzantine:

scineram:
No one would accept world government, not in this millennia. Also practically impossible.

The Baby Boomers will accept it and do so enthusiastically once it's revealed as the only way to enlarge the tax base enough to pay their entitlements. Hence, the big push for erasure of national borders and a global market.

Perhaps. The Europeans aren't showing themselves to be so enthusiastic about welcoming Turkey into the European Union. The above is about the only argument that they seem to find in favour of such, but it doesn't seem to be enough to make them "enthusiastic" and certainly not enthusiastic enough to actually do anything. For the time, they're clinging to their old way of life waiting for a miracle - talking about changes without being actually willing to make any.

I get the feeling most Europeans would rather accept higher taxes and less government services than a "change to their culture". They're socialists to the last man!

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

Byzantine — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:37:16 GMT

scineram:
No one would accept world government, not in this millennia. Also practically impossible.

The Baby Boomers will accept it and do so enthusiastically once it's revealed as the only way to enlarge the tax base enough to pay their entitlements. Hence, the big push for erasure of national borders and a global market.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

kingmonkey — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:10:50 GMT

Yes, totally impossible. I mean, NO ONE would accept some organization that judges you in some "international court" (International Court of Justice) or can overrule your trade regulations (World Trade Organization) or can slap sanctions on you because you didn't do what they said (United Nations) or declare war on you for violating those sanctions (United Nations Security Council). And no one would accept an international police force that doesn't have to obey the laws of member nations to capture international criminals (INTERPOL). The truth is that a world government is being set up and much of its infrastructure is already in place. We already have courts, security councils, governing councils, banks (World Bank and International Bank of Settlements), health organizations (World Health Organization and Codex Alimentarius). Trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and others are simply a means to harmonize the economies of different nations so that world government is easier. The Security and Prosperity Partnership Agreement of the United States, Mexico and Canada has already set up working groups to harmonize the different traffic laws, trade laws, manufacturing and transport laws in the different nations. Canada and the US also want to spend billions building up Mexico's infrastructure to make integration easier.

Under the European Union is currently run by the European Parliament, Commission and the Council of the European Union but under the Lisbon Treaty the EU would become simplified. The EU is a creature that has been in the works for over 50 years starting life as the European Coal and Steel Community in 1951 and then the European Economic Community in 1957. By 1992 the EU was in full bloom and if the Irish hadn't of defeated the new Lisbon Treaty the EU would have become THE government of Europe with member states having to cede most of their sovereignty to the EU.

Now we have a new South American Union, we have the African Union, Australia and most of Asia are in the process of establishing their own Union, a North American Union is quickly coming about with SPP and the NAFTA Superhighway. There are a lot of powerful people out there that want a single world government because it is to their benefit.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

Danno — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:05:01 GMT

In response to the original question - I expect it'll be lost in the shuffle when the currency collapses. Can you say "Wemar Mark"?

Danno, preparing to light his cigarettes with currency.....

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

Danno — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:53:43 GMT

scineram:
No one would accept world government, not in this millennia. Also practically impossible.

True. You wouldn't get all of Europe under one flag, either - a European Union would not be accepted by the various countries, nor could it be made effective. NAFTA would never be acceptable to the USAian people. The United Nations was a failed experiment, long since defunct.

If you think that a worldwide government would fail because the citizens don't want it, take a look at the last 50 or so voter referendums in the USA, and see how many were overturned or superceded, clearly against the citizen's wishes.

"By the people, for the people" was a charmin' phrase 140 years ago, but he was speaking in favor of a war instigated to take territory and control of the people living there. It's just as high-sounding now, but even less reflective of reality.

Danno - amazed at what some people will believe.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

liberty student — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:06:27 GMT

That's the attitude that the globalists are counting on. Disbelief and disengagement.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

scineram — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:59:06 GMT

No one would accept world government, not in this millennia. Also practically impossible.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

liberty student — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:45:39 GMT

scineram:
^This world government conspiracism is just stupid.

I respectfully disagree. There are groups with globalist goals operating at the highest levels. Generally "the people" do not approve of such goals. Nonetheless, the goals proceed with law, commerce and propaganda as the tools of manipulation.

I love having a libertarian perspective, but my God am I disappointed that many of the libertarians who came before me have mostly written books. It's put us way behind the eight ball of influencing change.

LvMI is a big step in the right direction, but where are the wealthy libertarians setting up liberty oriented businesses and foundations?

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

jimmy — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:46:49 GMT

Harksaw:
I'll tell you exactly what will happen when that day comes: The government will borrow to pay for peoples' Social Security checks. Just like they have been doing for every other government program

But borrow from whom? Physical money isn't the problem - you can print that by the shipload without much problem. The problem is stuff like food and wood and you can't borrow a hamburger from your unborn children. You have to borrow a hamburger from someone who's prepared to make it for you today and be paid for it tomorrow (most likely by your unborn children).

So a government running consistently unbalanced budgets and cruising into debt implies a contract between two groups of people:

a) The guys who are willing to make the stuff for you now and accept payment tomorrow

b) The poor suckers paying tomorrow

This basically amounts to Chinese savers today accepting American's promises to sell off their children in the form of slave laborers as soon as they're old enough to work. Nice!

Well, not that nice, but perhaps feasible as long as the Chinese trust that promise and the kids don't finally realize what the heck is going on and refuse to participate in this rather twisted arrangement by, for example, emmigrating to a country that is a little less messed up and doesn't have the same level of completely unsustainable debt.

As one of the previous posters points out, you only have to look to Europe to get a taste of how this kind of thing might play out. You've got all the PIGS going bankrupt and a few of other countries that actually have balanced budgets (most of the time). People in Europe are free to move from the PIGS to the other countries and no doubt will start to do so more an more over time as they realize that they're getting more and more for their labour elsewhere. In the long run, there are only two solutions for the PIGS - they either get handouts from the other countries (but I don't think the other countries actually have enough money to cover the shortfall, so that's not really an option) or they cut their budgets (and with them a whole bunch of current "social benefits"). Frankly, I'm looking forward to such a time - it would be a breath of fresh to have government powers cut back in such countries. The problem is that they usually cut back stuff like military and education before they cut back things like social security... so emmigration still remains the best option for most of the citizens of these countries.

What will happen in the US is a bit harder to say, since most Americans aren't free to go anywhere else (except maybe Canada - can US citizens live/work in Canada without any special visa requirements?). Maybe it will play out more like the USSR when this went bankrupt back in the late 80s and early 90s? Who knows... most people think that countries are too big to go bust, but this is not the case. Closer to the truth is that most people can't conceive of what that implies - they have a really hard time fitting the idea of a bankrupt country in their minds... they seem to presume that the resources of countries are inexhaustable. But we only have to look back as far as the collapse of the USSR to find an example of a country actually going bankrupt, so countries are certainly not too big to fail...

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

kingmonkey — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:15:56 GMT

Why? I've got lots of proof that it is in the making. To deny it is stupid.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

scineram — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:13:07 GMT

^This world government conspiracism is just stupid.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

kingmonkey — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:36:30 GMT

I honestly don't think the United States will exist in 2040 so Social Security wont really matter. The US will either be part of some UN-led One World Government or it will break apart into several different states. There might still be a US if that happened but it would be much smaller than it is today. But that's my opinion but I think there is a lot more evidence that supports a single world government than a break up of the Union.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

Anonymous Coward — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 05:33:18 GMT

Now, now,

I was only funnin' ya.

Re: What will happen when SS becomes bankrupt? I am scared.

JCFolsom — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 05:16:45 GMT

Anonymous Coward:
I can just imagine how that radio interview went;

JCFolsom: You *bleep* old *bleep* don't even own the *bleep* houses you live in. You *bleep* gained them through *bleep* theft. How can you *bleep* expect to leave them to your *bleep* children and *bleep* expect me to have to *bleep* rent because I can't afford a *bleep* house. You *bleep* don't own the *bleep* world, how can you *bleep* expect to own a *bleep* small portion of the *bleep* world and to keep that off the *bleep* market for *bleep* generations. We *bleep* all own the *bleep* world *bleep* collectivly so you *bleep* claiming *bleep* ownership is *bleep* stealing from *bleep* me. I hope you *bleep* die.

Radio announcer: and there you have the libertarian opinion as called in by one of our regular contributers.

It wasn't an interview, just a call in. And I don't bring up my geoism stuff, because it is a controversy all its own and would detract from the main point. You people seem to have trouble keeping your threads straight.

And, I know better than to cuss on the radio. And, of course, I rather tone down the message for those to whom the idea that income redistribution is wrong is new.