Economics Questions

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

Lilburne — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:23:50 GMT

Why don't you answer the following?

Lilburne:

Tell me how my scenario either (a) is impossible or (b) doesn't answer the following question you asked...

LIBERterryAN:

If there is $100 of gold money in circulation, and I borrow all $100 of gold money, at (say) 10% interest,

then there is only $100 of gold money in circulation. But, at the same time, $110 of debts exist.

Question: Is it not impossible to pay back the debt?

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

LIBERterryAN — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:18:13 GMT

Desparately grasping at straws. Heh heh heh.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

Lilburne — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:17:00 GMT

Tell me how my scenario either (a) is impossible or (b) doesn't answer the following question you asked...

LIBERterryAN:

If there is $100 of gold money in circulation, and I borrow all $100 of gold money, at (say) 10% interest,

then there is only $100 of gold money in circulation. But, at the same time, $110 of debts exist.

Question: Is it not impossible to pay back the debt?

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

LIBERterryAN — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:55:38 GMT

Easy? You must have such good hearing, dude, that you can here a dope-boy whistle from 10 blocks away.

And you're on lots of dope----quite obviously.

Lets see: If there is $100 of gold money incirculation, and I borrow all $100 of gold money, at (say) 10%

interest, then how can I possibly pay back the debt...even if you give me back ALLl the money that I borrowed

from you...considering how there is only $100 of gold money in circulation, but at the same time, I am in debt

to the tune of $110 ???

Your on dope, dude.

Give it up.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

Lilburne — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:36:32 GMT

LIBERterryAN:

If there is $100 of gold money in circulation, and I borrow all $100 of gold money, at (say) 10% interest,

then there is only $100 of gold money in circulation. But, at the same time, $110 of debts exist.

Question: Is it not impossible to pay back the debt?

No. Let's say you borrow that money from me. Over the course of the year, you do work for me for which I offer you a $60 salary. On the last day of the year, I don't pay you the $60 in gold; I just deduct it from what you owe me. On that same last day of the year, you pay me the remaining $50 you owe me out of the $100 of gold you still have. Easy.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

LIBERterryAN — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:32:13 GMT

I respectfully disagree. And I'll tell you why:

Over time, I must borrow the extra $10 as principal at interest...which means that the problem only gets worse.

In fact, no other possibility is possible.

Again: total dollar debts are now about $60 Trillion. Why?

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

nirgrahamUK — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:25:07 GMT

LIBERterryAN:
Question: Is it not impossible to pay back the debt?

no, its possible, because given the passing of time, ownership of the gold can change. typically loans are paid in installments. when i pay my first installment of 10$, the debt goes down from 110 to 100 then 90 etc., and so on until im done. during the time i pay back the debt. i merely act as a funnel directing products to other people, who direct their money to me, which i direct to you. over the time stream it is perfectly possible to send you 110$ if people are trading in money and goods, and i am productive.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

Laughing Man — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:21:20 GMT

LIBERterryAN:
then there is only $100 of gold money in circulation. But, at the same time, $110 of debts exist.

Again you are arguing in a vacuum.Also it makes no sense to setup a contract that is actual based on something that cannot be paid.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

LIBERterryAN — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:11:02 GMT

You're just desparately grasping at straws.

If there is $100 of gold money in circulation, and I borrow all $100 of gold money, at (say) 10% interest,

then there is only $100 of gold money in circulation. But, at the same time, $110 of debts exist.

Question: Is it not impossible to pay back the debt?

Or, if there exists $0 in circulation, so we create $100 out of thin air, as debt, at (say) 10% interest, then there

is only $100 of temporary (aka debt) money in circulation. But, at the same time, $110 of debt exists.

Question: Is it not impossible to pay back the debt?

Question: When, exactly, are you guys going to give me an answer that is based on doing the obligatory math?

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

gcopenhaver — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:03:08 GMT

LIBERterryAN:

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

For example, If we have $100 gold dollars in circulation, and I borrow all 100 of them, at ANY rate of

interest...then there is not enough money in circulation to pay the debt.

What other possibility is possible.

Moreover, if we create $100 out of thin air, as debt, at (say) 10% interest, then there is only $100 in

circulation...but debts are $110.

How, then, does the debt get paid?

And finally, total outstanding debt, right now, is around $60 Trillion dollars. Why?

Yes, we can all make up ridiculous scenarios that few people are stupid enough to actually attempt.

Why would you borrow all $100 if you knew you couldn't pay it back? Either you and the lender(s) know you can pay it back, and you do borrow it...or you don't borrow it because you or the lender(s) know you can't pay it back.

I can make one up, too.

What if someone that earns only $1000 a year borrows $1,000,000? Whether interest is charged is irrelevant, because at $1000/year income, just paying off the principle is practically impossible for a normal human that lives a normal lifespan and has other expenses.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

nirgrahamUK — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:01:16 GMT

ok, in an effort to stop the crazyness. the payment of interest need not be in commodity money. it could be in products and services.

it may be agreed that i take out a loan from you of your 100$ dollars, and at several specified dates in the future, i pay you various pre-arranged weights of silver, or various models of automobile of some standard/or market price, or some quantity of apples that you believe would re-imburse you.

your objections are address by my prior comments; but if you can't see that, maybe then you can at least see this final point.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

Esuric — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:59:09 GMT

LIBERterryAN:

Well, if that "absurd argument" is not true, Esuric, then why don't you prove it?

I did.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

LIBERterryAN — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:55:58 GMT

Well, if that "absurd argument" is not true, Esuric, then why don't you prove it?

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

Esuric — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:43:08 GMT

LIBERterryAN:

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

For example, If we have $100 gold dollars in circulation, and I borrow all 100 of them, at ANY rate of

interest...then there is not enough money in circulation to pay the debt.

Repeating that over and over again does not make it true. Only the Judeo God from Genesis can make your absurd argument valid.

Re: Mathematically Perfected Economy?

LIBERterryAN — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:39:41 GMT

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

For example, If we have $100 gold dollars in circulation, and I borrow all 100 of them, at ANY rate of

interest...then there is not enough money in circulation to pay the debt.

What other possibility is possible.

Moreover, if we create $100 out of thin air, as debt, at (say) 10% interest, then there is only $100 in

circulation...but debts are $110.

How, then, does the debt get paid?

And finally, total outstanding debt, right now, is around $60 Trillion dollars. Why?