Economics Questions

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

ivanfoofoo — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:40:15 GMT

You can still teach them the "unseen". Talk about the minimum-wage laws for example. Show them the short term benefits for a few. Then show them the long term problems. And so on.

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Scott Grizzard — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:30:08 GMT

nirgrahamUK:

I think the best single thing you can teach your class is the 'economic way of thinking', teach them to look for the unseen.

they can learn economic laws on their way, when it helps them in their analysis, they will thus integrate this *by doing* which is a powerful memory technique, and the fact that these rules are demonstratably useful motivates the learning of such rules, rather than "what good are all these rules?" syndrome.

don't underestimate how many accomplished economists started out on hazlitt, nor how many professors still set it as mandatory course text.

I agree, but again, I am trying to avoid the apperance of being biased, and Hazlett's book, while important, talks about nothing but issues after the first chapter.

I have no idea of how to present the material without taking a side, but I am determined to try. How, though, can you present an economics that people might be interested in without talking about specific issues?

Perhaps I could start as being unbiased, and then move into more "controversial" issues, but I don't know how to do that either...

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

ladyattis — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:16:51 GMT

Of liberal Christians that I know, a few things may need coverage. And I think it would be wise to consider these problems since I've found many liberal Christians aren't really as liberal as one may assume.

1. The significance of private charity vs 'public' charity [Welfare].

2. The reasons why safety regulations in food, medicine, workplaces, and other areas are negative contributors to the public welfare.

3. [Any additional issues of fairness, price controls, and etc].

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:34 GMT

I think the best single thing you can teach your class is the 'economic way of thinking', teach them to look for the unseen.

they can learn economic laws on their way, when it helps them in their analysis, they will thus integrate this *by doing* which is a powerful memory technique, and the fact that these rules are demonstratably useful motivates the learning of such rules, rather than "what good are all these rules?" syndrome.

don't underestimate how many accomplished economists started out on hazlitt, nor how many professors still set it as mandatory course text.

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Scott Grizzard — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:04:13 GMT

I want people to get from the course a few main points:

Prices are motivation and information
Growth is capital accumulation and innovation
There is one Economic Law - Everything costs something!
There are "General Rules" of economics - if it appears one is being violated, there is something fishy going on.
People pursue ends, choosing means that are rational - If they appear to be acting irrationally to pursue an end, they are actually pursuing a different end.

Economic "General Rules"

I had a thought about the "General Rules" of economics I wanted to teach, with the basic intention of saying "If it appears one of these are being violated, there is something fishy going on". I want to say "General Rules" because then you don't have to go into all of the mathematical detail associated with the Law of Demand (Hicksian demand curves are downward sloping), etc., or get into arguments about whether or not the Law of Diminishing Marginal Utility is tautological or not.

Diminishing Marginal Utility
Markets Clear (including money markets)
General Rule of Demand - when price goes up, quantity demanded goes down (no Giffen goods in the macro)
General Rule of Supply - when price goes up, quantity supplied goes up (except labor, sometimes)
Coase Theorem - If you give someone the private property rights, you usually get efficient outcomes

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Scott Grizzard — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:06:30 GMT

I had one more idea - a lecture on monopoly pricing (tying to medical drug prices) After the Supply and Demand lecture.

I am trying to keep the outline as politically neutral as possible (yes, good economics implies Libertarianism, but I want to stick to economics). I also want to present both Austrian and Neo-Classical economics, taking tools from both. I think that would be more engaging than a 20 week rant about what is wrong with the government.

For these reasons, I am hesitant to use Economics for Real People as a text book - I would much rather have something with the tone of Ekelund, Ressler, and Tollison's textbook for Microeconomics, but I don't want them to need to buy the book (rather stick to free resources), and I don't want to present it as a college class that a) is difficult and b) builds upon itself from lesson to lesson.

I want to keep the lectures as isolated from one another as possible, with the acknowledgement that marginal utility and supply and demand cannot be taken in isolation.

I also want to present the basic principles of economics as tools to look at the world and decide what to do, not to say what should be done. My general guideline is this: if an argument is accepted by most newly graduating economists as bull $%#, (like Keynsianism), then it's fair game for critisim without a "balanced opinion".

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Daniel — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:15:23 GMT

Conza88:

Thou Shall Not Steal.

Taxation is theft!

Voilà! Class dismissed!

Thou shalt not murdereth!

That's very libertarian.

Also, there's Gray North's Capitalism and the Bible: http://www.garynorth.com/public/department57.cfm

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Conza88 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:46:43 GMT

Thou Shall Not Steal.

Taxation is theft!

Voilà! Class dismissed!

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Scott Grizzard — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:14:31 GMT

I had some furthur thoughts for an outline:

Why should Christians understand Economics? [Biblical quotes about charity, great commission; Episcopal council silliness, and Pope's latest and greatest.]
Opportunity cost and the Broken Window [Hazlitt - Economics in One Lesson Intro and Chapter 1]
Economics is not about money - Means and Ends
Prices are more than motivation; Prices are Information, Smith and Hayek [Smith - Wealth of Nations Book 1, Chapter 1; Hayek "The Use of Knowledge in Society", Scott Shane, Dismantling utopia, Chapter 3, "What Price Socialism? An economy without information".]
Why is gold dearer than water? Marginal Utility
Crusoe Economics II - Interest rates and Capital Accumulation
Growth (Capital accumulation and Innovation)
Supply and Demand
Say what? - Supply is Demand and Say's Law (or, why the "paradox of thrift" if full of...)
Creative Destruction
Externalities and Public Goods
A failure to define property rights - the Coase Theorem and its critics
Special Topic - Education (Home schools, Church Schools, and Public Education)
Special Topic - Health Care (Can we efficiently "give a damn"?)
Special Topic - Foreign Aid I
Special Topic - Foreign Aid II (What happens if you kick out the NGO's and invite WallMart?)
Special Topic
Special Topic
Economics of Religion I - Church Markets (The Baptist Preacher as Entrepreneur)
Economics of Religion II - Church Governance, from Smith to Ekelund
Economics of Religion III - Economic Reflections on the Protestant Reformation
Where do we go from here?

It may be two long... I think the spring "semester" of Wednesday night programs is going to be from Janurary to May, so I might not have 22 weeks. Also, I wanted more topics that could be taught by other people, instead of me. I am thinking of trying to get a professor or two from USF to teach the special topics, but I am not sure if I can.

Does anyone have any suggestions for readings or additional topics? I am just trying to throw "all the ideas" up on the board, and trim them down later.

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Physiocrat — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:43:08 GMT

Christians, like the general population don't understnd economics, major misconcpetions really are founded on derivations of the labour theory of value. I woul at the beginning outline basic economic theory using to refute anti-subjectivist economic positions then apply this to the areas which they are most concerned: protectionism, sweatshops and third world development , the environment which covers the "left" and to defence, education and policing to the "right"; and for both of them banking as you may get quite a bot of cross party support.

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Greg — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:42:15 GMT

I also would recommend "Economics in One Lesson". I think it is downloadable somewhere here on the Mises site. Or maybe "Economics for Real People" by Gene Calahan, which is downloadable.

Have you tried contacting Robert Murphy? He is a Christian and may be sympathetic enough to the cause to help out(?) His works may also be useful.

Greg

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

laminustacitus — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:33:58 GMT

Scott Grizzard:
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed, or what type of outline I should put together? I don't want to just pull out my micro syllabus from the last time I taught, but I wanted to do something that is relavant to the concerns of my fellow church members.

You might want to have a format somewhat like Economics in One Lesson where you focus on fallacies, and showing why they are false.

Thomas Woods has great articles about these sorts of things. Here's an article by him.

Re: Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

hayekianxyz — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:12:59 GMT

You might want to try Gene Callahan's Economics for Real People it's a really great introductory text that's easy to follow and does not suppose any prior knowledge.

I would help more but I don't really know what sort of people you're teaching, in terms of prior economic knowledge and age, so it makes it difficult. Great idea though, and if it helps you could look at this: http://mises.org/classroom/syllabus.asp

If you look through that you'll get a feel for what sort of texts Austrians use in their own classes.

Economics for Christians - any suggestions for a Sunday School-like course otline?

Scott Grizzard — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 00:59:07 GMT

My church is considering having a series of Wednesday night "Sunday-school-like" classes, with a service, dinner, and then several "breakout" groups in the classrooms of its school.

I was thinking a good series for one of the groups would be a semester-length course on economics from a Christian viewpoint.

The motivation for this course is that many Christians (especially Episcopalians, but other denominations as well) don't understand economics, and are easily swayed by "bad ideas" they hear (both at home and abroad on missions).

My "thought" was to present the basic economic toolkit in a series of lectures, each dealing with a "particular problem", and then to drag in guest lecturers to speak about their experiences in third-world countries.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed, or what type of outline I should put together? I don't want to just pull out my micro syllabus from the last time I taught, but I wanted to do something that is relavant to the concerns of my fellow church members.

Does anyone have a good "textbook" that would be interesting to follow, or a format suggestion? Again, this is in the "maybe I have an idea" stage.