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Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

Natalie — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:22:44 GMT

On the one hand, religions have been used to justify various acts of violence by governments, groups and individuals. On the other hand, at its core most religions are about individuals so despite the efforts of authorities to subvert them the net effect, I think, was more pro-freedom. This about all the major issues:

private property vs. public ownership

personal responsibility vs. collective "guilt"

the right to self-defense against aggression vs. ask the "society" (i.e. police) to help you and otherwise guilty until proven innocent

self-reliance & hard work vs. entitlement & laziness

charity vs. income redistribution

non-violence vs. docility (as in don't protest when you're led to the gas chambers)

families as private self-governing units vs. state control over your private life

laws of spiritual guidance vs. "enemy of the people" treatment

decentralization vs. total control

an so on

No wonder socialists hate religion and try to eliminate it.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

hayekianxyz — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:57:37 GMT

Most libertarians think that topics such as this one make very poor discussion.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

liberty student — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:45:55 GMT

There is nothing statist about religion, organized religion is statist. Religion is a personal belief system, and outside the narrow western and christian context, one can find religions like Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism which are very decentralized and more about personal philosophy and spirituality and less about institutional direction.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

sirmonty — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:33:39 GMT

Knight_of_BAAWA:

sirmonty:
No, they really haven't. You seem to be forgetting the millions and millions of people that have perished at the hands of socialist regimes (who were "heavy-handed secular states"). Nazi Germany, the USSR, Red China, etc are all non-religious states.
Wrong. They were quite religious ("Gott Mitt Uns" on SS belt buckles isn't religious?), especially considering Marxist ideology as a non-supernaturalist Apocalypse of John. Communism is the religion of state-worship--even moreso than constitiutional/democratic republics.

In this case there is absolutely no point in comparing and contrasting the state with religion if we are just going consider statism a religion. While I agree that statism is similar to religion in the fact that people seem to just dogmatically follow it, I was under the impression that what was meant by religion in this context was really referring to theism.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

Taras Smereka — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:49:44 GMT

Believing in one falsehood because you were told to is a slippery slope to believing another falsehood because you were told to.

Religion and politics are the same thing.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

sicsempertyrannis — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:10:14 GMT

Knight_of_BAAWA:

. They were quite religious ("Gott Mitt Uns" on SS belt buckles isn't religious?), especially considering Marxist ideology as a non-supernaturalist Apocalypse of John. Communism is the religion of state-worship--even moreso than constitiutional/democratic republics.

Wrong. The Heer (regular Army) had Gott Mitt Uns. The SS had ' Meine Ehre heisst Treue' written on their belt buckles.

Just a minor nitpick.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

Fluery — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:15:17 GMT

No.

I just mean I like to avoid calling myself an atheist because of all the connotations attached to it and that invites dialogue about a subject I couldn't care less about (religion).

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

I. Ryan — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:10:57 GMT

Fluery:

Just from what I've seen, I think there are a higher percentage of atheist libertarians than the average in the US.

I don't like to think of myself as an atheist even though I don't believe in gods, I don't care for labels like that. I do find religion to be rather silly though.

So . . . you are not a theist?

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

Fluery — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:27:56 GMT

Just from what I've seen, I think there are a higher percentage of atheist libertarians than the average in the US.

I don't like to think of myself as an atheist even though I don't believe in gods, I don't care for labels like that. I do find religion to be rather silly though.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

Spideynw — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:23:08 GMT

nirgrahamUK:

Does this thread have redeeming features or is it bound for the graveyard?

Graveyard.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

nirgrahamUK — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:16:41 GMT

lol. not all things are bound for the thread graveyard

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

Ansury — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:15:20 GMT

Spideynw:

I would guess that most libertarians think people should be able to practice whatever religion they want to, as long as they do not infringe on our rights.

BTW, the majority of atheists I have met are socialist.

Same here. Or, at the very least "big governmentists".

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

razerfish — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:14:07 GMT

It is bound for the graveyard as are all things.

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

nirgrahamUK — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:08:22 GMT

Does this thread have redeeming features or is it bound for the graveyard?

Re: What do most libertarians think of religion?

razerfish — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:01:02 GMT

You can find very religous people who will pick and choose biblical passages that mean something to them and discard the ones that contradict the ones they like. You can find MANY religious people that really don't know what's in the bible and would be horrified to actually read it.

Is it possible Hitler considered himself a Catholic? You're the obvious expert as to his inner thoughts and beliefs. What were his beliefs on God, and what is your source of information since direct quotes from this guy are out of bounds? Why is it so hard to accept that the guy was a Catholic? Are the Catholics so pure of heart and without sin that a monster like Hitler couldn't possibly be a true Catholic? Oh, boy.