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Rothbard refuted!

Meistro — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:39:48 GMT

Say what?

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm

I don't really understand everything this dude is saying but it's definitely an interesting read. I think I see a few flaws in his thinking but I will let more learned mines rebut his criticisms (or accept them!)

HAARP hurricane sandy

Kelvin Silva — Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:19:49 GMT

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We need universal healthcare in America.

kylio27 — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:02:22 GMT

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZmmf5VWxaU

Medication should be paid for all people. People with certain sicknesses (particularly old people) just cannot afford medication at such costs. It should be provided to them for free, and in order to do that, it all has to be covered under universal healthcare. Should we just let them die or get worse?

Look at the places in the world with universal healthcare, they're consistently considered to have the best healthcare.

You sickos agree with pedophilia?

kylio27 — Thu, 20 Sep 2012 20:28:19 GMT

How will we protect children from these freaks without laws or police? What is your solution, because I'm not seeing any. If you don't want laws protecting children then it's kind of obvious that either you are a pedo, or you just don't care about the safety of innocent children.

This will really get you fired up! Take a look at what Pharr has to say about opression.

siope1kd — Wed, 12 Sep 2012 03:23:10 GMT

Take a look at this and let me know what you guys think of this article: http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/03/31/the-common-elements-of-oppressions/

Criticisms are welcome.

New here and a little unsure...

AJ Wyckoff — Tue, 07 Aug 2012 17:01:27 GMT

Hello everyone. I've been a daily reader of these forums for a few days, and I decided to join today. Joining new forums is never easy for me. What to say, what to contribute to, who to talk to, etc. always stump me, but I'm glad to be here.

I've been a libertarian for four years, but I spent much of that time sort of politically inactive and I haven't read much Mises or anyone else. I am unsure what to call myself, though. As I think about it more, I find myself advocating something like this:

1) Government is completely eliminated through revolution, whether violent or peaceful. (Preferably peaceful, obviously)

2) Government is re-established through the ratification of a truly minarchist constitution granting government the power to set laws for the protection of individual liberty, and to enforce those laws. However, this government is not entitled a monopoly on courts or police, and is denied any power of national defense. Taxes levied to fund police or courts are opt-out, and as such, police and courts exist in the private sector and can compete with the services offered through the public sector.

3) The citizenry is armed and trained in and by the private sector, in all skills and techniques currently offered to civilians as well as those restricted to LEOs and military servicemen. Without the existence of a standing army at the disposal of the state, the government has no means by which it can coerce the citizens to do anything. All government action and interaction is rooted in the self-governance of each individual, and as such, each individual has the right to secede from the state.

4) In time, the citizens can see for themselves whether or not the public sector is necessary. They can see and test the services offered through both the private and public sectors, and choose to a) allow them both to remain, b) scrap the government-offered services altogether, c) scrap the private-sector services altogether, or d) scrap all services altogether and establish something altogether different.

I tend to prefer to call myself a minarchist, as such. I don't like using the word "anarchy", as it carries very negative connotations in every-day use. People imagine anarchists to be violent, irresponsible, anti-authoritarian nuts. However, as I read these forums more, I think most people here would consider me an anarcho-capitalist since I refuse any monopoly of force to the state.

Anyway, I'm glad to be here and I look forward to interacting with you.

Namaste.

In libertopia, will it be legal to sell nuclear weapons to North Korea?

alsdjfalsdjfos — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:57:57 GMT

You need a state to manage property rights.

kylio27 — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 20:58:56 GMT

What if I just claim a large area of land as mine? I could just as easily claim the moon is mine. How do you manage property rights without force and/or coercion?

The Austrian Business Cycle Theory has been totally discredited as pseudoscientific nonsense by both mainstream and other heterodox schools of economics.

kylio27 — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 20:07:33 GMT

Prove them wrong.

what ludwig von mises, murray rothbard, karl marx, and vladmir lenin have in common and why minarchism wins

demosthenes — Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:58:01 GMT

all these men are jewish. man, what a coincidence it is that that neither libertarianism or socialism has a problem with usury! "yeah, let's get rid of the state, so there are no longer any organizations that can monopolize the issuance of credit. that way, we can keep our debt based slave system intact! we'll divide and conquer with our contrived ideologies of socialism and libertarianism!"

at least the minarchists leave room for the state to monopolize the issuance of credit, even if it doesn't these days (you know, because of all those reptilian Filipinos that control the federal reserve system). and only the state can ban people who subscribe to Abrahamic Delusions from taking the reins of power. unfortunately we're so far away from that intellectual revolution that supposed anti-state dupes don't even bother exposing the real root of our problems, jewdaism and christian zionism.

"yeah, gold is great and stuff! murray rothbard says it's so like awsm as a medium of exchange and stuff! let's all buy some gold so the "bankster gangsters" (aka hollow earth nazis) who already have most of the gold can maintain their dominance! we'll never mention the problem of the Jewish supremecists and their usury, that way, even if the whole world turns into a anarcho-capitalist utopia, they will never stop the Jewish Supremecists and they will stay trapped in the ideologies that were promulgated by, you guess it, Jewish Supremecists!"

"dude, all those awesome jews over at the mises school taught me all about fiat money and how to hate my government! who cares if "fiat money" is a smokescreen and they never discriminate between publicly and privately issued credit! who cares if gold is as intrinsically valuable as paper! who cares if we'll never reach a stateless society and that we were purposely misdirected by rothbard! i'm all like anti-state and stuff, you're such a statist ew gross."

i just answered the question of why rockefeller funded mises. you're welcome.

http://fauxcapitalist.com/

(yeah yeah, i'm a troll, get over it)

Someone really hates the mises bowtie :D

Qlubsoda — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:34:23 GMT

http://mises.org/store/Mises-Crest-Bow-Tie--P76.aspx#reviews

Very bad tie
I can see why many would choose this tie, when your life's hobby is analyzing things using faulty unscientific presumptions as your foundation you need to affect some sort of outsider, old-school intelligence to make up for your logic deficits.

However, young libertarian idiots need to find a new way to reinvent themselves as rebellious anti-revolutionaries upholding the truth about class structure as told by Austrian nobility, this tie makes them look like creepy Don Knots throwback f***** virgins.

Seriously, you guys need to take up some kind of coat as your signature clothing, some sort of "I'd totally be getting laid if this were my alt-19th century steampunk wunderland where piles upon piles of human corpses produced by the Truly Free Market was both morally fair and economically progressive."

Also, I can bench 2.5x my body weight and if I ever, EVER see one of you idiots (I probably won't since you live in little American whitopias) I will f****** deck you as hard as I can.

This made my day :D

Simasius linked to pedophile mafia?

Zordon — Sun, 03 Jun 2012 15:31:05 GMT

I've just read about events that recently shook Latvian people. I know everything about these from one Polish article and don't exactly know what link (in English) can I attach here that would do the job, so the matter is complicated. I found some sources like this: http://oplithchild1.blogspot.com/2012/05/systematic-removal-of-witnesses-list.html but I better tell the story concisely myself.

A man realized that his daughter was molested by some old guys, including politician and judge among others, and made this claim public. He suddenly disappeared and shortly after those accused were dead. Everybody thought it was dad's revenge, but doubts raised, especially after the discovery of his dead body and loads of greater doubts (about mysterious disappearings of witnesses in the link). The last guy that was identified by the girl as a pedophile died shortly after in the similar manner and it is finally now that those events are becoming connected with this particular board, since the last guy who mysteriously seen the dead person is Remigius Simasius, MisesU attender and author of one piece in Hoppe's Festschrift.

Discuss.

Should Freedom4Me73986 leave?

John James — Mon, 02 Apr 2012 02:07:46 GMT

[See the very bottom for the question of the thread.]

These are just a few of the things Freedom4Me73986 has said over the past 6 months or so...

Freedom4Me73986:

We obviously need to abandon collectivist civilization and move out into the woods where we will survive off of roots and berries.

Thats where I want to live freely. Out in the woods in NH

Yes I desire to "live in the woods"

I don't need civ to survive.

meat is poison.

Civ and tech are inherently destructive.

A typical exchange with Freedom4Me73986:

John James: Why are you here?

Freedom4Me73986: Why not?

John James:

a) because you claim to prefer living off in the woods

b) because you reject technology and claim to be "anti-tech" and Internet, computers, and this forum = tech

c) because you reject "civ" and Internet, computers, this forum and virtually everything about it = "civ"

Why are you here?

Freedom4Me73986: Why do you think I'm here?

John James: Honestly I don't know. That's why I'm asking. So, why are you here? Why don't you go off to the woods like you claim to want to?

Freedom4Me73986: Why don't you leave the state?

John James: I never said I wanted to. Why don't you go live in the woods?

Freedom4Me73986: Why do you care?

John James: That's not relevant. Why do you always answer a question with a question?

Freedom4Me73986: How am I any more inconsistent than anti-statists who refuse to leave the state?

A few moments ago, he said:

Freedom4Me73986:
Why should I leave? It's way more in my self-interest to stay here.

My question to the forum is:

Would you prefer Freedom4Me73986 to go live in the woods and get rid of his technology?

"Statist" Defined - Basic English 101

Poptech — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:14:38 GMT

Statist (defined) - "An advocate of statism"

Statism (defined) - "Concentration of economic controls and planning in the hands of a highly centralized government often extending to government ownership of industry"

...

Thus advocates of Laissez-faire cannot be called Statists nor can someone for simply believing the United States should exist.

I am tired of the misuse of common English language words by those seeking to "shock" people into agreeing with them.

Can't change password

liberation — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:10:05 GMT

The password the site automatically gives me is said to contain invalid characters when I want to change it. What shall I do?

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Austrian Economics Professor Dr. Morgan Reynolds Interviewed on 911,No Planes Etc.

onebornfree — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:29:18 GMT

[Click on any part of this text to go to interview host site] Austrian economics professor, Mount Pelerin Society member, adjunct scholar with the Ludwig von Mises Institute and Lewrockwell.com contributor Dr. Morgan Reynolds, is interviewed on his controversial views about the events in NYC on September 11 2001 , views which include the propositions: [1] that no airliners hit the towers [i.e the "no -plane theory] , and [2] that the 2 towers and perhaps other WTC buildings could not have been brought down via conventional means of demolition, as others often assert, but were possibly brought down via the use of presently unknown top secret technologies .

9/11 - I have converted to the dark side

Clayton — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:09:30 GMT

After 8 years of fence-sitting, I have decided to move to the dark side. I have actively avoided the 9/11 truth materials as a rule because I did not want to reach my conclusion on the basis of assisted self-delusion.

But I have finally reached a conclusion. I believe that a new, independent investigation into 9/11 should be called - a kind of citizen's inquiry. The acknowledged leaders in the 9/11 truth movement - I'm thinking of the folks with PhD and MS after their names, not the kooks and not our political leaders - should be permitted to organize the selection process for the independent investigatory committee. Perhaps they could put it to a popular vote or use some other decision-making process to set up the panel of investigatory experts who would then be given the same powers as any politically-appointed independent investigator. Yes, it's pure fantasy but it's still what I think ought to be done.

The 9/11 topic is sufficiently sensitive that LvMI and even LRC have been all but mum on the issue. Not that I blame them. The "conspiracy theorist" moniker is as powerful as "heretic" was a few centuries back in the vicinity of the European continent. Any suggestion that our political leadership could be anything other than perfect saints caught completely by surprise by an unthinkable terror attack planned deep in the caves of Tora Bora is instant suicide for one's credibility in the realm of public, respectable discourse. Sure, there were several bureaucratic mistakes that aligned like the planets to create a cascading breakdown in air security on the morning of 9/11 but that's a long shot from 9/11 being some sinister "inside job."

Before I go further, I would like to say a word about science and forensic investigation. (Those familiar with epistemological issues may feel free to skip this and the next few paragraphs.) Science and forensic investigation have a great deal of similarity. Namely, both are primarily concerned with explaining phenomena by constructing hypotheses about the series of past events which created them. A forensic investigator looks at the blood spatters or the locations of fingerprints or exit wounds to build a "story" of events that created the state of affairs at the crime scene as it was left by the criminal and which the forensic investigator is now examining. An astronomer looks at the electro-magnetic signature of an exploding star to classify what sort of nova it is. The events which the astronomer is interested in explaining occurred far into the past but the astronomer is really trying to choose the most plausible or the least improbable explanation for the sequence of events which resulted in the phenomena he is presently observing. The same goes for particle physics or any other field of scientific inquiry. This is the process of induction.

Science or forensic investigation is rarely characterized by certitude. Most explanations fit the data to a degree and are more or less plausible than other explanations. It is this constant process of selecting the best available hypothesis that makes scientific inquiry dynamic. Once, flood geology and geocentrism were mainstream. I think it's a bit smug to describe these positions as "unscientific" or "premodern". They were just the best available hypotheses that anybody at the time had. The evidence were fitted to those hypotheses until they broken down and were superseded by better explanations. Sometimes, there are several, pretty good hypotheses and nobody knows for sure which one - if any - will turn out to be the correct one. The present state of quantum physics is a great example of this. No one knows for sure whether string theory will turn out to have been a colossal waste of time or if it's actually a good description of physical reality. There are several competing theories, one or none of which may win out as new evidence is uncovered by the Large Hadron Collider.

A significant difference between basic science (like physics) and forensic investigation is that nature does not actively conceal evidence or make active attempts to frustrate the inductive process. By contrast, the subject of the forensic investigator's inquiry can be expected to have made every attempt to cover his tracks and to conceal and destroy evidence. The murderer will burn down the house or set the accelerator and drive the car off a cliff into a lake or whatever to destroy the evidence that the forensic investigator needs. Scott Peterson tied his wife's body to a cinder block and then took her body "fishing" and sent it to the bottom. It eventually turned back up, to his demise.

There are several possible ways to criticize a hypothesis. The most obvious way is to present an alternative hypothesis that you believe is better then test it. If your hypothesis is simpler or better fits the available evidence or both, then it may be a better explanation for the evidence. Another way to criticize is to find internal contradictions within the hypothesis that make it impossible. Or, you can look for major inconsistencies between the hypothesis and the available evidence, making the hypothesis too implausible to be entertained. Bear in mind that it is sometimes the case that the best hypothesis is no hypothesis at all. Sometimes, the answer to the question is "I don't know."

The distinction between science and forensic investigation becomes all important on this point. The criticism often leveled at skeptics of official explanations of conspiracies and government misdeeds is that they are just poking holes but not offering any better explanation of their own. The data might not fit perfectly but, barring a better explanation, so what? The data never fit perfectly to any explanation. In the realm of natural science, this is a valid criticism. Proponents of creationism and other obsolete hypotheses usually do nothing more than poke holes in modern scientific theories. They do not offer an alternative hypothesis because they do not have one. Since scientists are in the business of explaining things, just pointing out difficulties in the explanations offered by other scientists doesn't make those scientists wrong, it just highlights areas for improvement. But when it comes to forensic investigation, poking holes is important because the perpetrator likely has actively concealed the evidence which would allow reconstruction of the events that occurred in the crime or even actively frame someone else to distract attention away from himself. A bad explanation might be worse than just saying "I/We don't know" because you might end up convicting an innocent person.

To bring this back to 9/11, the central question put forward by any "truther" is whether to believe the accepted version of events. By "accepted", I mean the mainstream view, the official, NIST, Popular Mechanics, and majority-of-everybody-else view. I think that the accepted view is sufficiently inconsistent with the evidenced that it is not a viable hypothesis. If the accepted view is not to be believed, then it follows that a new investigation should be performed to find a more satisfactory hypothesis.

Note that even if the accepted explanation of the events leading up to and occurring on 9/11 is false, it does not automatically follow that "9/11 was an inside job." It is perfectly possible that the accepted explanation could be false and some other explanation of 9/11 not involving a government conspiracy is true. Perhaps 9/11 was actually orchestrated by a foreign government - Russia, Israel, China, etc. - and to save face the US leadership decided to cover it up and pursue their retaliation through more covert means than open warfare, accounting for the apparent cover-up of what really happened on 9/11.

What are the reasons for doubting the official explanation? For me, WTC 7 was the steel beam that broke the camel's back. In the case of WTC 1 and WTC 2, there is a prima facie plausible reason for why they collapsed... they were hit by a multi-ton plane hurtling at hundreds of miles per hour through the air, laden with jet fuel. All prior history of steel buildings cannot tell us what "should have" happened since the events of 9/11 were unprecedented. No building had ever been struck by an aircraft in the way that the twin towers were that day. But there was no plane that struck WTC 7. Its fires were intense but still well within the realm of historical experience. Its damage due to debris did not affect the core columns. The foundation was secure and unaffected by the collapses of WTC 1 and WTC 2. Explaining its collapse ought to have been a major priority for the government agencies that normally do this sort of thing (NIST). The measures normally taken for investigation of a building collapse were not taken in the case of WTC 7. Its collapse was implicitly lumped together with the "well, they were hit by passenger jets, what do you think took them down?" explanation put forward for WTC 1 and WTC 2.

The explanation which NIST eventually did put forward for the collapse is a classic example of deus ex machina (I think the AE911 folks call it this). The mechanism posited for the structural failure is thermal expansion. Namely, the beams expanded from the intense, protracted fires to the point that they began to shear the connecting bolts. Then, the failure became progressive and the failure in one section caused the failure of the other sections. The result is the smooth, symmetrical collapse which you see in the videos. This explanation is not impossible. It could be true. It does not entail a violation of any of the laws of physics. What is remarkable about this explanation, however, is how utterly improbable it is that this series of events could occur. The core columns failed in exactly the order and at exactly the timings that they would have failed had a controlled demolition been performed on the building. The only difference is that the mechanism was shearing of the connecting bolts due to thermal expansion and subsequent progressive collapse, rather than explosive charges. We can't know exactly how improbable NIST's hypothesis is, either, since NIST has not released the computer models of its simulations. I suspect that this is probably because the release would show that the model had obviously been fine-tuned. In fact, I am sufficiently confident of this to draw a line in the sand and say that if NIST were to release its models and if it turned out that they were not fine-tuned, I would simply renounce my conversion to the dark side, that is, I would again accept the accepted version of events.

This is why the discovery of nano-thermite and spherical iron particles at the WTC site is important (I do have some questions regarding chain of custody of the dust samples). NIST's reasons for rejecting a demolition hypothesis are that the explosion would have been heard from a great distance in every direction and it would have been impossible to have installed the explosives without detection. But they only took into consideration conventional, loud and powerful explosive used in demolitions. If a covert operation did indeed occur on 9/11, it seems to me entirely possible that the perpetrators would have used exotic munitions to bring the building down in a manner which could be explained as an accident of some sort. In other words, NIST used a strawman. And installing and concealing the explosives without detection would have been no sweat if the head of WTC 7 security was on the payroll of the hypothesized conspirators.

It should also be noted that the government faces a much lower threshold for explaining what happened on 9/11 than a scientist or forensic investigator faces. The reason is perfectly illustrated by the NIST report... the government only need show that it is possible that it's story could be true. That is, the accepted explanation need only have a non-zero probability of being true. So long as it is free of any inescapable contradictions, the public will accept it. Why? Because an evil government is unthinkable... or "unspeakable" to borrow a word from the title of a recently published book.

There is a tremendous amount of "noise", that is, wild conspiracy theories of the Roswell variety, in the area of alternative hypotheses to the accepted explanation of 9/11. I have no patience for nonsensical fairy tales paraded about as "skepticism" of the government's explanation of 9/11. The words "disinformation" and "dupes" come to mind.

If you are already skeptical of the accepted explanation of 9/11, you will likely be non-plussed by my milquetoast presentation of why I have converted to that position. Oh well. If you still hold to the accepted explanation, you might wonder why I'm posting this here. Let me assure you that I am no evangelist. I'm not interested in posting links or changing your mind. It wouldn't make any difference, anyway. What I am interested in is the truth at any cost. If you can poke any holes in my line of reasoning regarding WTC 7, please do so. I don't to be anybody's dupe, whether CIA's or Michael Ruppert's - which may be the very same thing.

Clayton -

Dr. Morgan Reynolds; nutcase or brilliant?

fezwhatley — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 07:03:09 GMT

He is a very austrian oreinted economist, whos also interested in pre-Austrian french theory. Mises.org script interview Here

From 2001-2002 he was the chief economist in the Department of Labor. Said he got the job through an old contact

Reynolds also wrote a book that destroyed the case for labor unions. But.....He's one of these batcrazy 911 truthers. His Troofer Website here *shakes head. where did it all go wrong?

What ever happened to E. R. Olovetto?

NonAntiAnarchist — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 15:32:30 GMT

I know he was banned for a short period of time, but he seems to have permanently disappeared. I always liked reading his comments :(

Biggest threat to Austrian Economics

Marek K Nowak — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:04:47 GMT

Obesity.

I'm not jocking.

A huge proportion of Mises's staff are overweight, if not plainy obese.

Block, DiLorenzo, Rockwell, French, Long, Maltsev, Raico, Thornton, Murphy, Woods, Cantor, are all on the fat track to a hearth attack.

This needs to become at big priority at the Insitute.

What can we do to help?

Maybe a new category for the 'Donate' form, to send contributions for "staff personal trainers"?

Any ideas?

Pretend I'm stupid

That_Which_Isnt — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:47:30 GMT

What's the bottom line of "anarcho"-capitalism? I'm referring to things like liberty equality solidarity etc etc etc. What is this system trying to achieve.