General

Re: How do we get the message across?

hardway — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:31:15 GMT

I wouldn't say that they are sub-human, but it is a good point that they may not deserve liberty. It seems to me that a large portion of the population of the world doesn't want liberty, they want to be ruled. I've been wrestling personally with how a libertarian society could be implemented, and whether or not it's even possible to have a true libertarian society, and the large segment of society that doesn't want the responsibility of freedom seems to me to be the largest hurdle. Even more so than the state not voluntarily relinquishing power.

Re: How do we get the message across?

Panarchy — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:55:48 GMT

Nick. B:

Panarchy:

I've got a website I'm not using at the moment (though I warn you, as soon as I have need of it, I'll put everything you guys have done in a zip file, send it to you, confirm that you have received it, then DELETE everything on the server).

If you're still interested, tell me!!!

Panarchy

PS: Probably a few months at least before I will need the website... if you're lucky, a year.

Definitely Panarchy!!!

Sure thing!

Please PM me everything needed (html [or whatever you're using], scripts [if you're using them], CSS [if using!], images and whatever else into a ZIP file, and I'll upload it to my site!

Panarchy

Nick. B:

ryanpatgray:

Panarchy:
Don't we need more than just 15%? We might not need the majority (as you know, many revolutions were lead by the few, not the many!), but seriously, 15%?

I do not really think so. Most people are sheeple.

Take my mother for example. The main stream media had convinced her that "free trade" was a good thing, but now they have convinced her it is a bad thing. If we became the "MSM", and we were able to feed propaganda to people 24/7, they would be easily led.

15% seems like a huge number to me though. That would mean that 15 out of every 100 people you met would be a libertarian. As it is here, I doubt 1 out of 200 are.

But how do we become the MSM without at least a sizable minority? If we do not have a pool of an-caps or at least minarchist libertarians from which to draw tallent there is no way that we could become the MSM. We need a critical mass first.

I don't know if I read this, or I said this before, but;

Most (if not all) revolutions were done by the few, not the many. (non-majority[ial])!

So why can't we do the same?

Panarchy

Re: How do we get the message across?

liberty student — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:58:20 GMT

Nick. B:
Why? Hope I'm not being a pest.

If you were being a pest, I would not tell you where my other hangouts are. lol

Trust me, there are pests here (I might be one). You are not a pest.

Re: How do we get the message across?

Nitroadict — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:52:51 GMT

Nick. B:

liberty student:

Nick, not that I want to lose you and your enthusiasm here, but perhaps you want to check out www.Bureaucrash.com Their focus seems more action driven. I'm on the social network, but haven't visited in a long while. I think Wombatron is there too.

Why? Hope I'm not being a pest. Anyway I'll check it out. But I've considered this site to kind of be my idealogical base if you will and I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome...

Do not moderate your spirits, lad. As a cynic myself, I can say I'm not used to being around feisty intellectuals.

Preaching to the choir has it's uses regarding morale, & frankly, sometimes a libertarian and/or anarchist just needs to be able to read such preaching somewhere else outside of his/her head to keep their resolve going.

Besides, newbies get a free-pass for a while, imo.

Re: How do we get the message across?

liberty student — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:48:08 GMT

GilesStratton:

You're not, all I think LS is saying is that perhaps that website would be better in regards to action.

Exactly. Don't leave us Nick!

Re: How do we get the message across?

hayekianxyz — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:43:40 GMT

Nick. B:

liberty student:

Nick, not that I want to lose you and your enthusiasm here, but perhaps you want to check out www.Bureaucrash.com Their focus seems more action driven. I'm on the social network, but haven't visited in a long while. I think Wombatron is there too.

Why? Hope I'm not being a pest. Anyway I'll check it out. But I've considered this site to kind of be my idealogical base if you will and I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome...

You're not, all I think LS is saying is that perhaps that website would be better in regards to action.

Re: How do we get the message across?

Nick. B — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:38:21 GMT

liberty student:

Nick, not that I want to lose you and your enthusiasm here, but perhaps you want to check out www.Bureaucrash.com Their focus seems more action driven. I'm on the social network, but haven't visited in a long while. I think Wombatron is there too.

Why? Hope I'm not being a pest. Anyway I'll check it out. But I've considered this site to kind of be my idealogical base if you will and I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome...

Re: How do we get the message across?

hayekianxyz — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:37:03 GMT

Spideynw:
I do not really think so. Most people are sheeple.

Spideynw:
If we became the "MSM", and we were able to feed propaganda to people 24/7, they would be easily led.

I don't know how you managed to conclude that we need to influence people who are nothing but sheep. We do not need the help of the average person, who is nothing but dull and ignorant and really couldn't care less about some ideal of capitalism or socialism. We need a small number of educated libertarians who are capable of spreading the idea to areas of country in which people do care about more than putting food on the table. The message also needs to be as radical and as uncompromising as possible.

Re: How do we get the message across?

liberty student — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:31:11 GMT

Nick, not that I want to lose you and your enthusiasm here, but perhaps you want to check out www.Bureaucrash.com Their focus seems more action driven. I'm on the social network, but haven't visited in a long while. I think Wombatron is there too.

Re: How do we get the message across?

Nick. B — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:24:05 GMT

ryanpatgray:

Spideynw:

Panarchy:
Don't we need more than just 15%? We might not need the majority (as you know, many revolutions were lead by the few, not the many!), but seriously, 15%?

I do not really think so. Most people are sheeple.

Take my mother for example. The main stream media had convinced her that "free trade" was a good thing, but now they have convinced her it is a bad thing. If we became the "MSM", and we were able to feed propaganda to people 24/7, they would be easily led.

15% seems like a huge number to me though. That would mean that 15 out of every 100 people you met would be a libertarian. As it is here, I doubt 1 out of 200 are.

But how do we become the MSM without at least a sizable minority? If we do not have a pool of an-caps or at least minarchist libertarians from which to draw tallent there is no way that we could become the MSM. We need a critical mass first.

We could try a "Propaganda of the deed" tactics and strategies. And also things to encourage grassroots movements.

Re: How do we get the message across?

Nick. B — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:20:45 GMT

Panarchy:

I've got a website I'm not using at the moment (though I warn you, as soon as I have need of it, I'll put everything you guys have done in a zip file, send it to you, confirm that you have received it, then DELETE everything on the server).

If you're still interested, tell me!!!

Panarchy

PS: Probably a few months at least before I will need the website... if you're lucky, a year.

Definitely Panarchy!!!

Re: How do we get the message across?

ryanpatgray — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:22:37 GMT

Spideynw:

Panarchy:
Don't we need more than just 15%? We might not need the majority (as you know, many revolutions were lead by the few, not the many!), but seriously, 15%?

I do not really think so. Most people are sheeple.

Take my mother for example. The main stream media had convinced her that "free trade" was a good thing, but now they have convinced her it is a bad thing. If we became the "MSM", and we were able to feed propaganda to people 24/7, they would be easily led.

15% seems like a huge number to me though. That would mean that 15 out of every 100 people you met would be a libertarian. As it is here, I doubt 1 out of 200 are.

But how do we become the MSM without at least a sizable minority? If we do not have a pool of an-caps or at least minarchist libertarians from which to draw tallent there is no way that we could become the MSM. We need a critical mass first.

Re: How do we get the message across?

Spideynw — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:03:50 GMT

Panarchy:
Don't we need more than just 15%? We might not need the majority (as you know, many revolutions were lead by the few, not the many!), but seriously, 15%?

I do not really think so. Most people are sheeple.

Take my mother for example. The main stream media had convinced her that "free trade" was a good thing, but now they have convinced her it is a bad thing. If we became the "MSM", and we were able to feed propaganda to people 24/7, they would be easily led.

15% seems like a huge number to me though. That would mean that 15 out of every 100 people you met would be a libertarian. As it is here, I doubt 1 out of 200 are.

Re: How do we get the message across?

hayekianxyz — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:56:03 GMT

Spideynw:

Eric:

It is hopeless to try to educate some people. Some people will support statism until they starve. Personally, I only try to debate with people who are interested and open-minded.

I am starting to come to the same conclusion. On other forums, people that just cannot make intelligent posts, I am putting on an ignore list, since they cannot even understand basic critical thinking concepts.

Generally people are dull and ignorant. Ignore them, we only need a minority anyway.

Re: How do we get the message across?

Spideynw — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:52:28 GMT

Eric:

It is hopeless to try to educate some people. Some people will support statism until they starve. Personally, I only try to debate with people who are interested and open-minded.

I am starting to come to the same conclusion. On other forums, people that just cannot make intelligent posts, I am putting on an ignore list, since they cannot even understand basic critical thinking concepts.