General

Re: Educational Bias

Donny with an A — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:43:58 GMT

Sounds awesome, Chris. If you're interested in letting FEE be a resource for your chapter, drop me an e-mail at dshahar [at] fee [dot] org, and we can talk about what sorts of things we might be able to help you with. Good luck!

Re: Educational Bias

Chris — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:25:45 GMT

Donny with an A:
Are you involved with any Libertarian or economic organizations on your campus?

This year I am planning on starting a chapter of "Students for Liberty" on my campus. I'm currently the campus leader of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus though unfortunately it has been extremely difficult to find support for that group here.

Re: Educational Bias

Donny with an A — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 03:44:15 GMT

No jumping necessary. It's entirely possible that a free society would still feature some sort of criminal justice system; it's not your fault that the state is the sole provider of that service. But it's cool you go to Pace. I work at the Foundation for Economic Education in Irvington, which is like 20 miles North of the city. Are you involved with any Libertarian or economic organizations on your campus?

Re: Educational Bias

Byzantine — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:51:32 GMT

Chris:
I go to Pace University in Manhattan and I'm studying criminal justice. My reason for this before I have the majority of people on here jumping on me, is in hopes of getting into a good law school so I can hopefully one day begin repealing these idiotic laws we have.

If you want to be a good lawyer, you need to take courses that will improve your skills in both deductive and inductive reasoning as well as disciplining yourself to pay attention to detail. Accounting, economics, Latin, philosophy, and the hard sciences are all good.

If you want to be a legislator you will need to develop a large network of mostly superficial relationships, a task most intellectuals don't have the temperament for.

Re: Educational Bias

Chris — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:20:07 GMT

Donny with an A:
If you wouldn't mind me asking, where do you go to school, and what do you study?

I go to Pace University in Manhattan and I'm studying criminal justice. My reason for this before I have the majority of people on here jumping on me, is in hopes of getting into a good law school so I can hopefully one day begin repealing these idiotic laws we have.

Re: Educational Bias

Donny with an A — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:13:11 GMT

Thanks, Solid.

Ticktock, LvMI offers a summer fellowship which is pretty much like that, but I think it's mostly aimed at grad students. But it never hurts to send over an e-mail!

Re: Educational Bias

ticktockclok — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:57:44 GMT

Is it actually possible to just head down to the LvMI and go study there? I would really like to do that, if it is possible.

Re: Educational Bias

Solid_Choke — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:39:31 GMT

Donny with an A:

My advice to you would be to try to understand what you want out of your education, and whether your current field of study can really facilitate that. I know that when I was pursuing an economics major, I kept getting really frustrated because we weren't exploring the kinds of questions I was really interested in: things like methodology, the normative implications of certain theories, whether or not what I was learning was contentious and why, etc. I talked with my professors, and they basically kept giving me the line that we couldn't deal with those sorts of things in undergraduate classes, and that I just needed to learn the stuff in order to be prepared for whatever I wanted to do in economics. I got fed up pretty quickly and switched to philosophy, where we were allowed to question anything and everything, and where I was able to take entire courses devoted to the kinds of questions that interested me. So if you're having a bad experience with there being a certain culture in a department which isn't conducive to your learning the sorts of things that you want to learn, you might be best served looking elsewhere. Alternatively, you could try to approach some of your professors during office hours to talk about things that puzzled you.

A tip would be to try to understand as many different points of view as you can before condemning other approaches as "statist" or "unsound." One of the most valuable experiences of my undergraduate career was working on my honors thesis with a professor who was very much an egalitarian. It helped me understand my own views, and I've also become much better equipped for talking with people who don't come from the same paradigm as me. So even if you believe one thing and your professor believes another, it's likely true that your professor's point of view is not completely ridiculous, and you could learn a lot about yourself by trying to understand it better. I like to think that we are only truly equipped to advocate our own views when we can completely understand why a reasonable person would believe our opponents' views.

Another thing you can do is try to get into contact with people on your campus that share your interests, especially faculty members, even if they're outside your department. Most professors love to talk to interested, enthusiastic students, and would be more than happy to sit down with you during their office hours. Sometimes this can be true even when you aren't in their courses: by the end of my undergraduate experience there were quite a number of professors who I'd have no problem popping in on, even though I generally wasn't taking one of their classes (though usually I had taken one in the past). And I think that doing that helped me tremendously in getting to where I am today in terms of understanding the ideas I care about.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in making the most out of your time at college. If you wouldn't mind me asking, where do you go to school, and what do you study?

I changed my major from economics for the same reason. I am going to study economics at the graduate level after this year, but was very frustrated with undergraduate econ's lack of debate. I have learned so much more outside of the classroom than inside; but it wasn't until I started arguing regularly in an academic setting that I really understood my own beliefs and learned how to effectively communicate them. As always, I enjoy reading your view on things Danny.

Re: Educational Bias

Donny with an A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:24:31 GMT

My advice to you would be to try to understand what you want out of your education, and whether your current field of study can really facilitate that. I know that when I was pursuing an economics major, I kept getting really frustrated because we weren't exploring the kinds of questions I was really interested in: things like methodology, the normative implications of certain theories, whether or not what I was learning was contentious and why, etc. I talked with my professors, and they basically kept giving me the line that we couldn't deal with those sorts of things in undergraduate classes, and that I just needed to learn the stuff in order to be prepared for whatever I wanted to do in economics. I got fed up pretty quickly and switched to philosophy, where we were allowed to question anything and everything, and where I was able to take entire courses devoted to the kinds of questions that interested me. So if you're having a bad experience with there being a certain culture in a department which isn't conducive to your learning the sorts of things that you want to learn, you might be best served looking elsewhere. Alternatively, you could try to approach some of your professors during office hours to talk about things that puzzled you.

A tip would be to try to understand as many different points of view as you can before condemning other approaches as "statist" or "unsound." One of the most valuable experiences of my undergraduate career was working on my honors thesis with a professor who was very much an egalitarian. It helped me understand my own views, and I've also become much better equipped for talking with people who don't come from the same paradigm as me. So even if you believe one thing and your professor believes another, it's likely true that your professor's point of view is not completely ridiculous, and you could learn a lot about yourself by trying to understand it better. I like to think that we are only truly equipped to advocate our own views when we can completely understand why a reasonable person would believe our opponents' views.

Another thing you can do is try to get into contact with people on your campus that share your interests, especially faculty members, even if they're outside your department. Most professors love to talk to interested, enthusiastic students, and would be more than happy to sit down with you during their office hours. Sometimes this can be true even when you aren't in their courses: by the end of my undergraduate experience there were quite a number of professors who I'd have no problem popping in on, even though I generally wasn't taking one of their classes (though usually I had taken one in the past). And I think that doing that helped me tremendously in getting to where I am today in terms of understanding the ideas I care about.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in making the most out of your time at college. If you wouldn't mind me asking, where do you go to school, and what do you study?

Re: Educational Bias

Remnant — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:22:23 GMT

Chris:
My first year has taught me a lot, not from school itself, but mostly from reading books and articles from LvMI.

Chris

If you have not learned much from a year at college, unless you are doing pure sciences, I suggest that you think hard about whether you should continue. I spent three years at university and had a similar experience to you - didn't learn much from the courses but much by myself learning about free market economics and libertarianism.

If I had my time again, I would pack up and head down to Alabama to study at the Ludwig Von Mises Institute. I would guess that a couple of months there would be worth more than two years in a statist institution. (I have nothing to do with the LvMI, by the way!)

Good Luck!

Remnant.

Re: Educational Bias

Remnant — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:10:31 GMT

Re: Educational Bias

Byzantine — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:50:21 GMT

This problem only seems to come up in poli sci and economics courses. My advice is not to take them.

Educational Bias

Chris — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:34:50 GMT

The school year is approaching this coming Wednesday, I'm about to begin my second year of college. My first year has taught me a lot, not from school itself, but mostly from reading books and articles from LvMI. I've also learned that the vast majority of professors and students at the university I attend are very socialistic, and last year I frequently was engaged in heated arguments, and would argue in my papers as well, but luckily these professors, although ignorant people, were decent people and did not bias my grades. This year I am concerned it will not be the same, because although last year I was still libertarian, this year since reading so much from here I have shifted more towards a minarchist. Not only this but the fact that I looked up my professors and several of them have reviews with past students claiming that they have strong political opinions and are intolerant of opposing views to say the least. How has everybody here handled this? It's going to be very difficult if not impossible for me to keep my mouth shut if the professor says something blatantly wrong or anti-freedom, and although I'd state my opinion in a polite manner I know Mrs. PHD may not appreciate my input. What is there to do?