General

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

Nitroadict — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:00:44 GMT

Nitroadict:

Does anyone have the text of the blog post? Apparently, blogger sends me to a page that says the blog's been deleted...

I'm genuinley anoyyed, having bookmarked it previously :\

bump.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

Nitroadict — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:48:13 GMT

Does anyone have the text of the blog post? Apparently, blogger sends me to a page that says the blog's been deleted...

I'm genuinley anoyyed, having bookmarked it previously :\

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

liberty student — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 03:07:08 GMT

Hell Yeah brother. We gotta take the power back.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

MacFall — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:53:05 GMT

Screw that. They aren't going to Newspeak my language while I stand by. They can go to hell. I won't be their victim in this anymore than anything else.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

Charles Anthony — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:21:48 GMT

SInce we are on the topic of bastardizing language, I tell you what bothers me the most: ultra-modern uses of the term Rhythm And Blues or the common short-form R'N'B.

When I say Rhythm And Blues I am talking about Rhythm And Blues. I went to the record store the other day and asked to be directed to the RNB section. The kid at the counter sent me to the rap section! What gives??

-----

I find it easier to argue to manage the bastardization of the term "libertarian" because at least most people can scale it down to the term "liberty" to arrive at an internally consistent definition.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

ViennaSausage — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:49:27 GMT

Nitroadict:
but...but... adhering to the original use of terms is playing with definitions!

lol. wasn't libertarian used for french socialist revolutionaries at the time of its inception. liberal and libertarian got flipped somewhere down the line.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

Jon Irenicus — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:25:07 GMT

Hey, not my fault the "lefties" tried to co-opt terms that did not originally characterize their beliefs...

-Jon

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

Nitroadict — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:23:34 GMT

Jon Irenicus:

Doesn't mean I'm going to reject the term, although I favour liberal over libertarian, as that is the original term anyway used to characterize individuals whose goal was liberty.

-Jon

but...but... adhering to the original use of terms is playing with definitions!

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

Jon Irenicus — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:09:53 GMT

Doesn't mean I'm going to reject the term, although I favour liberal over libertarian, as that is the original term anyway used to characterize individuals whose goal was liberty.

-Jon

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

MatthewWilliam — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:55:41 GMT

banned:
I do think voluntarism is imposible without liberty and anarchy and that all three principles ought to be strived for.

Well said, banned.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

ThePostmaster — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:49:40 GMT

Elimination of the State alone does not make anarchy since one can easily choose one's king. It creates a system similar to panarhcy instead. As I have said an anarchist could choose anarchy but if anarchy means without rulers then it is impossible to have on a totally social basis since some legitimately could choose not to have rulers but others could choose to do so, meaning that they are not anarchy. Anarchy has to be a personal, rather than social goal, and voluntaryism is the way you get there.

Second, libertarianism vs. voluntaryism. If we say we're libertarians it makes us look like "libertines." Of course we don't object to a man being a tyrant with himself or joining a community containing little actual liberty (like a fundamentalist religious community) as long as its voluntary. Also, like I said earlier about drug addiction etc. Man has a full right to voluntarily enslave himself, even if his freedom to do so leads to less liberty. If liberty for all is our highest goal I don't see it here. We would want much more liberty than we have today but it isn't an end in itself, it is simply a means to achieving a society where all human relations are voluntary.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

liberty student — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:36:51 GMT

It's all well and good until someone forms a voluntaryist party or a mutualist party.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

solos — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:40:02 GMT

Mutualists could just as well take over the word Voluntarist.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

Anonymous Coward — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:08:31 GMT

So is 'voluntaryist' the Newspeak word I'm allowed to use these days?

Just asking because it would help out a bunch.

Re: Why I Reject the "Libertarian" And "Anarchist" Labels In Favor of the term "Voluntaryism" (And why the case may be you should too).

banned — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:01:36 GMT

Well said. I have to say, the term libertarian has been basterdized by the Party and the American Right. I think the term voluntaryist is ideal in that there are no ways to mistake it's intention for something else, but I disagree with your assertion that the word voluntaryist should be used since voluntarism ought to be the central thrust to one who adheres to the NAP. I do think voluntarism is imposible without liberty and anarchy and that all three principles ought to be strived for.