Newbies

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

SilentXtarian — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:01:51 GMT

I think I'm all set now. I just ordered one of the text-books recommended above. I'm really interested in how the fed manipulates the free market... now that I've learned about how the financial markets work I see how the fed manipulates our market and other markets a bit clearer... I find it ironic how I've arrived at austrian economic conclusions just by taking a look at the financial system and seeing how it works. Thanks for all of the help!

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

SilentXtarian — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:33:10 GMT

I have a few questions. The whole idea of the system we have seems really alien to me. I just don't get why people can call this socialist stock market we have a free market. Why do we have a system built upon lies? Can someone answer a few more questions for me before I go on doing more research?

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

SilentXtarian — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:06:12 GMT

The book I read was A Guide to Financial Markets by Charles R Geisst. It feels weird because now I have more questions than answers. I think that wall-street and the stock exchange sounds more like socialism than so the free market. I'm curious that before I go read those books if anyone knows about books about the idea of wall-street socialism that I could read... I want to learn a bit more about that subject. I was surprised about how non-free market the ideals of the financial market sounded like.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

hayekianxyz — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:17:09 GMT

Jon Irenicus:

TEEoPP has most of his methodological writings coupled with short articles on economics (particularly public goods, taxation, the calculation argument &c.), enough economics to make it worthwhile. Though not groundbreaking they extend the Austrian case against the provision of public goods by the government and Hoppe has a lot of good articles on money in there too.

It's not essential reading though, I didn't felt like a learned a whole lot after reading. As I said, I think a few articles could be picked from there that might be beneficial (those of money, public goods, and the one on methodology). But other than that, I don't think there's much groundbreaking in there, definately skip the articles on argumentation ethics.

SilentXtarian:
Thanks for the concise list. I just picked up a book from my university's library (I'm taking a summer class at a university I'm interested in going to) and it's about the market- the way the market actually works. I am just wondering if I am going about it the right way. I figured that I would rather learn about the whole overview of the market and how it works in reality first before I started looking at theories and text-books which defined the economic terms. This one seems to do a decent job at explaining the market. I already have a fairly decent idea about how the stock market works now, and, how the federal reserve manipulates the market and how central banks in other nations seem to have an adverse effect on the market. My question is from here- how should I go about when I read about economic theories- how should I go about reading them? It's just that I would think usually people look at the individual theories at first and then learn more about specifics... but am I going about this the right way?

I began to study economics by myself, like yourself I suppose. At first a lot of it was foreign and I didn't understand, keep with it, make sure to study everything you read in depth. I had a lot of problems with more of the techincal terms, and especially financial terms. One thing that might be worthwhile is picking up a finance textbook and studying that before you get into economic theory. A lot of it won't be necessary, but some of it will greatly help your economic understand. Also, if you have the chance, buy an economics dictionary and look up any words you don't know there.

Which book on the market have you looked at? To be honest I'd go straight into the books I suggested, read those and you'll go a long way in your understanding of economics. I'm assuming your maths schools are too great, if I'm wrong correct me, but as such I haven't recommended much more than principles level micro since it will be beyond your understanding.

When I began studying economics I didn't really know what area most interested me, recently, however, I've become very interested in studying macroeconomics. So just get a good understanding of economic theory and then find what area interests you and focus on that area. That works I've suggested with some additions mentioned by Jon (Individualism and Economic Order, Socialism) will give you a really good understanding of general economics, more so of Austrian economics.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

James Greene — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:01:11 GMT

Anarchist Cain:

Meltdown by Thomas E Woods Jr.

Also this is a very informative and funny presentation by Peter Schiff from the Austrian Scholars Conference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgMclXX5msc

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

Conza88 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:09:19 GMT

What is the Free Market? by Murray N. Rothbard

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

SilentXtarian — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:57:23 GMT

GilesStratton:

SilentXtarian:
Perhaps I need to study economics more before I take the austrian school of thought more seriously and give more consideration to it so I won't make ignorant judgments about it.

You're on the right track here, this is very important that you understand this. Although, what I'd add is that it's not worth giving up Austrian economics to focus on mainstream economics, study both at the same time and you'll have a better understanding of both. Austrian economics and mainstream economics are both neoclassical schools of thought, granted, mainstream economics is very formalist and positivist, but at the end of the day, both schools of thought have the intention of explaning price formation with the use of analysis of marginal choices on the behalf of individuals. One of Rothbard's aims in writing Man, Economy and State was to highlight the affinities between Marshallian price theory and Austrian price theory.

If you study all of the following, in some depth, you'll know more economics than most on these forums;

Gregory Mankiw - Principles of Economics (this is a principles level text, so it's a good introduction to mainstream thought)

David Moss - The Concise Guide to Macroeconomics

David Friedman - Price Theory

Olivier Blanchard - Macroeconomics

Carl Menger - Principles of Economics

Gene Callahan - Economics for Real People

Milton Shapiro - Foundations of the Market Price System

Murray Rothbard - Man, Economy and State

Friedrich Hayek - Prices and Production

Jesus Huerta de Soto - Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles

Roger Garrison - Time and Money

That list covers both Austrian and mainstream analysis of micro and macro economic thought, an in depth study of those books might take some time, but the payoff in terms of your understand of Austrian economics will be huge. Other books I might add would be Joseph Salerno's textbook that is currently being written, but I am hugely looking forward to. Also, Kirzner has a textbook on Austrian price theory, that might be very helpful to you.

Thanks for the concise list. I just picked up a book from my university's library (I'm taking a summer class at a university I'm interested in going to) and it's about the market- the way the market actually works. I am just wondering if I am going about it the right way. I figured that I would rather learn about the whole overview of the market and how it works in reality first before I started looking at theories and text-books which defined the economic terms. This one seems to do a decent job at explaining the market. I already have a fairly decent idea about how the stock market works now, and, how the federal reserve manipulates the market and how central banks in other nations seem to have an adverse effect on the market. My question is from here- how should I go about when I read about economic theories- how should I go about reading them? It's just that I would think usually people look at the individual theories at first and then learn more about specifics... but am I going about this the right way?

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

Jon Irenicus — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:40:46 GMT

TEEoPP has most of his methodological writings coupled with short articles on economics (particularly public goods, taxation, the calculation argument &c.), enough economics to make it worthwhile. Though not groundbreaking they extend the Austrian case against the provision of public goods by the government and Hoppe has a lot of good articles on money in there too.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

hayekianxyz — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:13:13 GMT

My point was to be provide a concise list, although, Individualism and Economy Order and Socialism would be good additions to the Austrian side of the list. I wouldn't include Human Action because I don't think that there's any economics there that isn't it Rothbard's subsequent treatise. I'd take both of the Hoppe books off of your list, there's nothing particularly groundbreaking in either of them, instead I'd suggest a few of his essays on money and banking and political economy.

I'd replace your Hazlitt suggestion with either the book he edited (The Critics of Keynesian Economics) or Hutt's book (The Keynesian Episode). I'd take Reisman off of any introductory list, and I purposefully left epistemological books off of the list, although I'd put Hoppe's Economic Science and the Austrian Method instead of those that you suggested, at least as an introduction.

Good call on the Ekelund book.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

Jon Irenicus — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:35:44 GMT

I'd add Mises's The Theory of Money and Credit, Socialism and Human Action as well as his Epistemological Problems of Economics and Theory and History. The latter two do not directly concern economics but rather issues surrounding the discipline, and they thus give a broader context of how and why Austrians think the way they do. At the risk of overwhelming Silent, I'd add Hayek's The Counter-Revolution of Science and Individualism and the economic order (this one is useful to contrast with Socialism to see how Mises and Hayek differ) and Hoppe's The Economics and Ethics of Private Property and A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism for the same reasons. Reisman also develops a very interesting approach to fusing classical and Austrian economics in his Capitalism. Hazlitt's The Failure of New Economics (title may differ slightly) is good if you want to see a line-by-line refutation of Keynesian thinking, whilst studying the topic. Finally, once you're done with the economics, I'd move on to Long's book on Mises and Wittgenstein and Selgin's Praxeology & Understanding to better comprehend Austrian methodology. I hear Mises's biography by Hulsmann also has a lot of economics in it. Don't take these as books you need to read at once, but rather over the course say, of a decade. There is no rush.

A good comprehensive tome on neoclassical economics is Robert Ekelund's (might not be the exact title) Private Markets and Public Choice.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

hayekianxyz — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:06:35 GMT

SilentXtarian:
Perhaps I need to study economics more before I take the austrian school of thought more seriously and give more consideration to it so I won't make ignorant judgments about it.

You're on the right track here, this is very important that you understand this. Although, what I'd add is that it's not worth giving up Austrian economics to focus on mainstream economics, study both at the same time and you'll have a better understanding of both. Austrian economics and mainstream economics are both neoclassical schools of thought, granted, mainstream economics is very formalist and positivist, but at the end of the day, both schools of thought have the intention of explaning price formation with the use of analysis of marginal choices on the behalf of individuals. One of Rothbard's aims in writing Man, Economy and State was to highlight the affinities between Marshallian price theory and Austrian price theory.

If you study all of the following, in some depth, you'll know more economics than most on these forums;

Gregory Mankiw - Principles of Economics (this is a principles level text, so it's a good introduction to mainstream thought)
David Moss - The Concise Guide to Macroeconomics
David Friedman - Price Theory
Olivier Blanchard - Macroeconomics
Carl Menger - Principles of Economics
Gene Callahan - Economics for Real People
Milton Shapiro - Foundations of the Market Price System
Murray Rothbard - Man, Economy and State
Friedrich Hayek - Prices and Production
Jesus Huerta de Soto - Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles
Roger Garrison - Time and Money

That list covers both Austrian and mainstream analysis of micro and macro economic thought, an in depth study of those books might take some time, but the payoff in terms of your understand of Austrian economics will be huge. Other books I might add would be Joseph Salerno's textbook that is currently being written, but I am hugely looking forward to. Also, Kirzner has a textbook on Austrian price theory, that might be very helpful to you.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

SilentXtarian — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:00:55 GMT

Jayjay:

Read Hazlitt's relatively short "Thinking as a Science" (pdf is on this website somewhere) then take his advice.

Wow. I really liked that book. I think I now more have an idea of where to go from here. Are there any text-books on economics which you would recommend I read first? I recognize the importance not to be solely ingrained with one philosophical point of view... I know I should be looking for this stuff on my own but I don't really know any authors of books which would give me a full scale look at all of the things I should look at. Perhaps I need to study economics more before I take the austrian school of thought more seriously and give more consideration to it so I won't make ignorant judgments about it.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

JosephCarriger — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:45:47 GMT

If you have an iPod, download the FEE summer lectures and Category Archive: Fundamentals of Economic Analysis.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

trulib — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:39:25 GMT

Joseph Salerno's lecture series "Introduction to Austrian Economic Analysis" was a great help to me in the early days.

Re: I've done a lot of reading and research and I still feel like a noob.

Conza88 — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:00:02 GMT

It probably has to do with epistemology, get a better grasp of apriori and why the Austrian school differs to the other schools in the social sciences.