The Mises Community
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

The US on a gold standard.

rated by 0 users
Not Answered This post has 0 verified answers | 18 Replies | 4 Followers

Not Ranked
2 Posts
Points 70
WillMitchell posted on Sun, Aug 9 2009 9:23 PM

I was talking with my father about the benefits of the US on a commodity backed currency and finally sold him on it principle, but not in reality. He has an interesting point that if the US were on a commodity backed currency, other countries with a fiat currency could buy and sell massive amounts of US currency in a very short period of time. This could definitely rock our system quite a bit. Is there an answer to this sort of thing in the Austrian school of thought?

 

Thanks

  • | Post Points: 35

All Replies

Not Ranked
9 Posts
Points 275

How is that any different from how it is now?

If anything a commodity currency would destroy all other countries' currencies as they would look like shit schemes in comparison. The market would adjust very quickly to get the forex crosses in line.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
513 Posts
Points 8,440
fsk replied on Mon, Aug 10 2009 9:15 AM

The reason people don't use gold and silver as money is because it's illegal.  People who try to set up alternate monetary systems based on gold or silver wind up in jail.

Two specific examples are E-Gold and the Liberty Dollar.

I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
1,305 Posts
Points 23,565
scineram replied on Mon, Aug 10 2009 10:05 AM

Except it is legal and you can contract in silver or bubblegum if you want.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
574 Posts
Points 9,290
Moderator
Natalie replied on Mon, Aug 10 2009 11:01 AM

As far as I understand, trading in precious metals is not illegal per se. It's simply impractical due to legal tender laws and capital gains taxes. At least on a wide scale. It's quite possible on a local level off the government radar. I already hear stories of gold and silver hoarders buying for various services with silver or gold coins or bars. I don't know how widespread this practice is, but it has a chance of becoming very common in times of hyperinflation.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
513 Posts
Points 8,440
fsk replied on Mon, Aug 10 2009 11:33 AM

Here's a specific example.

Suppose you buy raw materials for $5 and sell something for $10.

If you use FRN as money, you owe taxes on the gain of $5.

If you use barter as money, you owe more in taxes.  (Using gold/silver as money counts as barter, according to the IRS.)  You owe a tax of 28% on the*ENTIRE* transaction.  The buyer also owes a tax of 28%.  The net effect is much greater taxes.

Therefore, gold and silver as money are not outright illegal, but they are heavily taxed.  That's the reason you can't go into Wal-Mart and buy something with gold or silver.

Operating a gold/silver warehouse receipt bank *IS* illegal.  It's not outright illegal.  The cost of compliance with the banking regulations makes such a business effectively illegal.  Most people who try to operate such a business wind up raided by the State.

The problems with using gold/silver as money are:

  1. The tax treatment, if it's an on-the-books transaction.
  2. You can't go into a bank and deposit your metal.
  3. You can't easily trade back and forth between FRN and gold/silver.

If you're willing to operate off-the-books, only then is it practical to use gold and silver as money.

I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
574 Posts
Points 9,290
Moderator
Natalie replied on Mon, Aug 10 2009 11:47 AM

Good explanation, FSK.

As long as federal reserve notes are widely accepted and inflation is somewhat under control, using gold/silver as money would be very limited and primarily off the book. However, just wait for the coming crush. I lived through hyperinflation after the Soviet collapse. Barter (and foreign currencies) was far more preferrable than local currency since it was inflated every day and everyone wanted to get rid of it. Listing prices in dollars or euros is still very common in stores. Since the start of the crisis, Russians have been buying gold and silver products en masse and they don't trust foreign currencies as much as they used to. They've been taught a lesson and are not going to forget it. Americans are going to learn it the hard way. It's going to get really ugly, I'm afraid.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
513 Posts
Points 8,440
fsk replied on Mon, Aug 10 2009 12:41 PM

Until TSHTF, it's probably best to keep your long-term savings in gold and silver, but keep enough FRNs for short-term needs.  Over the past 10 years, gold has outperformed the S&P 500 by a wide margin!

I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
1,305 Posts
Points 23,565

fsk:
You can't go into a bank and deposit your metal.

Is it not what safety deposit boxes do?

fsk:
You can't easily trade back and forth between FRN and gold/silver.

What do you mean? You can easily buy and sell gold and silver, no?

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
574 Posts
Points 9,290
Moderator

scineram:

fsk:
You can't go into a bank and deposit your metal.

Is it not what safety deposit boxes do?

He probably means you can't use them as your checking account and draw against them.

scineram:

fsk:
You can't easily trade back and forth between FRN and gold/silver.

What do you mean? You can easily buy and sell gold and silver, no?

Again, you have to pay taxes on your gains or maybe even a sales tax.

Besides the day-to-day price is volatile due to the central banks interventions.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
1,305 Posts
Points 23,565

But this is true to oil or any number of goods. Why single out gold?

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
4,114 Posts
Points 66,145
Moderator

because traditionally, gold has been free market money.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
574 Posts
Points 9,290
Moderator

scineram:
But this is true to oil or any number of goods. Why single out gold?

Huh?

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
513 Posts
Points 8,440
fsk replied on Mon, Aug 10 2009 2:57 PM

No.  If you had gold in a safe deposit box in 1933, the bank management was required to steal your gold and give you a piece of paper.

You're an idiot if you keep your gold in a safe deposit box in a bank.

I went to a local coin store and asked about American Eagle gold coins.  The quoted bid/ask spread was 10%.  The transaction costs are artificially high due to State licensing costs and State restriction of the market.  I'll probably use an online dealer where the costs are lower.  Still, my transaction is automatically reported to the State/IRS.

It's hard to buy/sell gold for FRNs with cash.  There are State reporting requirements.

I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.

  • | Post Points: 20
Not Ranked
2 Posts
Points 70

Thanks for all the replies.

My question still stands, however. If China can print money and we are on a gold standard, then couldnt China print massive amounts of money, buy up a lot of our dollars, and drive the value of our currency up? Couldnt they then sell it all and cause our dollar to lose value?

 

Basically, if we are on a gold standard, cant other countries easily manipulate the value of our dollar to put us at a disadvantage?

  • | Post Points: 35
Page 1 of 2 (19 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS

Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528

Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119

contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises

Mises.org sitemap