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Key Insights?

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redundancyisfreedom Posted: Sun, Aug 9 2009 3:54 AM

The key insight of liberalism is that the State is unnecessary.

The key insight of conservatism is that the State is inevitable.

Thoughts?

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you can have all sorts of yelling matches by drawing false dichotomies.  doesn't make it a particularly useful technique unless your goal is confusion (see: media)

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Why do you think the two are mutually exclusive? It's not a dichotomy if they're both true...

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the state is as inevitable as people think it is.

if you think the state is inevitable, i say you are part of the problem.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Rooster replied on Sun, Aug 9 2009 12:24 PM

Do you mean "libertarianism" or "classical liberalism"? In any case neither one is necessarily anarchist.

As for conservatism, how could that be a key insight? That doesn't tell you anything about what it represents, which would be a difficult thing as I don't think it's really a set of clear principles. At best you can probably make some generalizations about people who call themselves conservatives.

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nirgrahamUK:

if you think the state is inevitable, i say you are part of the problem.

Quickly! Hurl vitriol! Nothing makes social change like spitting bile at fellow travelers!

Should a person with such an attitude be a mod at mises.org? Are we attempting to emulate freerepublic.com here?

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Juan replied on Sun, Aug 9 2009 4:31 PM
Are you saying the state is inevitable ? You are wrong. All you can do is make unfounded wrong assertions and complain about the mods ?

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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I made a hypothetical. thanks for telling everyone that the premise fits. therefore by  modus ponens, I say more confidently, you are the problem.

you find the word, 'problem' vitriolic?

redundancyisfreedom:
Should a person with such an attitude be a mod at mises.org?

file a complaint

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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No wonder people don't listen to us as libertarians...

Well, enjoy your little pissed off little island...

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i'm pretty calm actually

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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ricarpe replied on Sun, Aug 9 2009 4:55 PM

redundancyisfreedom:

The key insight of liberalism is that the State is unnecessary.

The key insight of conservatism is that the State is inevitable.

Thoughts?

I think both statements are using vague ideological name tags to make generalized statements. 

Maybe a little elaboration would provide for a more logical discourse in this thread?  If the end result of starting this thread was for reasoning out what your statement and getting constructive responses, I believe you need to give more than what you did.

"All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree." -James Madison

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Juan replied on Sun, Aug 9 2009 5:12 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttered_cat_paradox

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Rooster replied on Sun, Aug 9 2009 5:17 PM

nirgrahamUK:

the state is as inevitable as people think it is.

if you think the state is inevitable, i say you are part of the problem.

Now would you say that people who think the state is inevitable are evil, socialists, parasites, or all of the above?

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redundancyisfreedom:
No wonder people don't listen to us as libertarians...

Anarchists are libertarians who take liberty to its logical conclusion.

Also, it's completely lame to complain about a mod when you're fishing for an argument, and not liking what you find.

redundancyisfreedom:
Well, enjoy your little pissed off little island...

You seem to be the only person pissed off.  Anyway, have fun paying taxes!

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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Rooster:
Now would you say that people who think the state is inevitable are evil, socialists, parasites, or all of the above?

I think people who keep posting the same flamebait in thread after thread are trolling.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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Rooster replied on Sun, Aug 9 2009 5:22 PM

liberty student:

Rooster:
Now would you say that people who think the state is inevitable are evil, socialists, parasites, or all of the above?

I think people who keep posting the same flamebait in thread after thread are trolling.

Evil trolls?

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Rooster:
Now would you say that people who think the state is inevitable are evil, socialists, parasites, or all of the above?

they certainly assist in the manufacturing of consent (to commit evil acts, a necessary amount). so its ugly if not necessarily *evil*

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Juan:

That is hilarious

'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition

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Juan replied on Sun, Aug 9 2009 6:03 PM
I thought it applied to the case at hand - sort of.

X is unnecessary but X is inevitable ? seem to be a clear contradiction in terms ?

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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