Jonatan K:Won't work for anybody but budhists. Most world religions state a set of "just" violence. Like if your wife is emailing some other man....
Are you implying that it is just to kill your wife because she is taking to another individual of the opposite sex? By chance can your wife murder you if you email a woman? And which religion allows you to murder your wife for doing such a task?
'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition
Laughing Man: JonBostwick: None of the current Palestinians stole the land, so they are the just possessors absent the appearance of the rightful owner. Which the Israelis definitely are not You don't know that.
JonBostwick: None of the current Palestinians stole the land, so they are the just possessors absent the appearance of the rightful owner. Which the Israelis definitely are not
None of the current Palestinians stole the land, so they are the just possessors absent the appearance of the rightful owner. Which the Israelis definitely are not
You don't know that.
The burden of proof lies on them, so I can safely say that I do know that.
Today Jews are doing what Christians did a thousand years ago, claiming the region because its where their religion began. Sorry, thats not a legitimate source of property rights.
Jonatan K:Like if your wife is emailing some other man....
No man gets so lucky that someone else wants to take away his wife and allow him to be single again!
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
Jonatan K: You atribute too much rational to people who reject it. Any given System of Enslavement aknowledge property right of Owners and Reject those rights of slaves. So, Slaves of whatever Deity can be denied whatever right the priest of given Deity seem fit.
You atribute too much rational to people who reject it. Any given System of Enslavement aknowledge property right of Owners and Reject those rights of slaves. So, Slaves of whatever Deity can be denied whatever right the priest of given Deity seem fit.
Islam isn't a system of envslavement- although people will take anything and twist it. Just like nowadays in the US a liberal is defined as someone who supports socialist economic policies. There are no priests- and Islam is completely voluntary(at least according to the Quran, I can't speak for islamic governments and their nonsense usually attributed to hadith). Sounds like you're just taking a big swipe at religion in general, which is ok i suppose.
auctionguy10: [ Sounds like you're just taking a big swipe at religion in general, which is ok i suppose.
[ Sounds like you're just taking a big swipe at religion in general, which is ok i suppose.
No. I just wanted to point to some inconsistency between liberal ideas and major religions.
"We are nothing. Mankind is all. By the grace of our brothers are we allowed our lives. We exist through, by and for our brothers who are the State. Amen."
Bogart: If you think there will ever be peace in the Middle East then read this: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians_2 This is sad and this conflict will never end if this kind of thing happens. The folks losing their homes will certainly side with the more violent and reactive groups of their friends. Is there a way out of this? Is there something Israel can do to un-do the damage? Can Israel exist and continue doing these types of things? The only answer is No to all the above.
If you think there will ever be peace in the Middle East then read this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians_2
This is sad and this conflict will never end if this kind of thing happens. The folks losing their homes will certainly side with the more violent and reactive groups of their friends.
Is there a way out of this?
Is there something Israel can do to un-do the damage?
Can Israel exist and continue doing these types of things?
The only answer is No to all the above.
I wrote an article on the topic. Not the best quality, but I think it gets my point across. About a quarter of my family is Jewish (half of my father's side), and so for me it's difficult to argue my point of view with them, but I believe that a Jewish state is inevitably doomed to collapse because of its own policies (high government spending due to Israel being both a welfare and warfare state, increasing animosity between Jews and Arabs due to the lack of the ability for Palestinians to thrive [due to lack of property rights], etc.). The article does not depict my opinion completely though, as I also believe that Egypt and Jordan should open their borders to Palestinian laborers, although only Israel is really economically free enough to really offer Palestinians a better economic future.
Economic Thought (Latest Post): Don't Be Fooled by GDP
Jonathan M. F. Catalán: I wrote an article on the topic. Not the best quality, but I think it gets my point across. About a quarter of my family is Jewish (half of my father's side), and so for me it's difficult to argue my point of view with them, but I believe that a Jewish state is inevitably doomed to collapse because of its own policies (high government spending due to Israel being both a welfare and warfare state, increasing animosity between Jews and Arabs due to the lack of the ability for Palestinians to thrive [due to lack of property rights], etc.). The article does not depict my opinion completely though, as I also believe that Egypt and Jordan should open their borders to Palestinian laborers, although only Israel is really economically free enough to really offer Palestinians a better economic future.
How lack of property on Palestinian side connected with Israel warfare spending?
Jonatan K: How lack of property on Palestinian side connected with Israel warfare spending?
The lack of private property rights in Palestine and the lack of respect for private property (whether a lack of respect by Hamas, Al-Fatah or the Israeli military) curbs the Palestinians' ability to invest their saved capital into businesses, while many Palestinians don't have access to capital because there is spiralling unemployment. As a result, Hamas uses this poverty to draw people to their ranks, by promising them money and a better future (similar to how the Nazi Party gained popularity in Germany).
Israeli spending on warfare is connected to the threat poses by Hamas, although admittedly a lot of Israeli spending is also based on some fear that the Arab countries are going to unite and converge on Israel again.
My article doesn't deal with the connection. It deals with how Zionism is doomed to fail because of the impact that welfare and warfare spending have on the state of the Isreali economy, and the long-term ability for the government to fund these programs (which has already began to decline, since there has been a decrease in tax revenue due to the decrease in income). It also deals with what a solution to the Palestinian problem would be (anarchism, ideally).
JonBostwick: Today Jews are doing what Christians did a thousand years ago, claiming the region because its where their religion began. Sorry, thats not a legitimate source of property rights.
The argument for or against the legitimacy of the Israeli State is obsolete and should not be made, because it weakens your case against those people that matter. If you argue against an Israeli State, there will be few Jews who will listen to your arguments. I argue against the Israeli State, but only from a pro-Jewish perspective. In any case, Israel exists. Arguing about its legitimacy will do nothing. It won't disappear because it's not legitimate. Any arguments should be made under the assumption that Israel exists and will exist for the remainder of the time this problem remains relevant.
Jonathan M. F. Catalán: [My article doesn't deal with the connection. It deals with how Zionism is doomed to fail because of the impact that welfare and warfare spending have on the state of the Isreali economy, and the long-term ability for the government to fund these programs (which has already began to decline, since there has been a decrease in tax revenue due to the decrease in income). It also deals with what a solution to the Palestinian problem would be (anarchism, ideally).
[My article doesn't deal with the connection. It deals with how Zionism is doomed to fail because of the impact that welfare and warfare spending have on the state of the Isreali economy, and the long-term ability for the government to fund these programs (which has already began to decline, since there has been a decrease in tax revenue due to the decrease in income). It also deals with what a solution to the Palestinian problem would be (anarchism, ideally).
It is actually derrivative of a notion that because
a)Tax is theft
b) Tax it the money source for the Gov't
ergo
any state is doomed.
I wonder...
It's possible that it goes in cycles. The State is born and it grows as a result of the "ratchet effect". Ultimately, the burden of government becomes so large that either the State collapses financially or there is some sort of revolt. Government size is curtailed, and the cycle begins anew.
By the way, this appears to be another typical misrepresentation.
The land was owned by Jews until 1929. The Arabs who live their never compensated the original owners. Despite this, the land was RE-PURCHASED. Yes, money was paid for the property but despite evidence to the contrary the family living there denied it! Presumably under pressure from the PA and out of fear that they had sold property to Jews, which is a capital offence in the Palestinian Authority.
If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.
J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
Now, this report about Palestinian peace effort is far more truthful. And check this one about the Zionist pigs atrocities (don't miss the recruitment video for brave Hamas freedom fighters since it's your US and Europe tax payers money at work).
Whoa. Our local zionist?
Of course not. Do I look like a monkey or a Nazi to you? ;)
Heh.
No ideologies but our official one allowed.
Check this write-up on the historical events in the area (but keep in mind that it's written by a Jew so it must be as biased as a very pro-Israel Western media).
Its been awhile since I've touched upon the subject of the middle east (time is a harsh mistress), but if anyone is interested I'd recommend Birth of Israel by Martin Gilbert, Infidel by Ayaan Ali Hirsi, and MEMRI for all of your video needs.
Food for thought:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRSE02mwjo
Zionist propaganda ;)
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