As I've mentioned before in another thread I've been studying history for a while now. I can't figure out where people get this idea that it is honorable to fight in a war. In fact I've pretty my view on war is almost completely a pacifist one. I do not feel that wars of aggression need to be fought. Nations need not be invaded by one another. Wars of imperialist conquest are just simply wrong and there are better methods of uniting a region rather than just war. I feel that the only wars that are really justified in history are revolutionary wars, or, rebellions. I don't think even those need to happen. I feel that revolutionary wars happen only because an imperial power is somewhere they aren't supposed to be, so, they pay the consequences. Other than that- wars are just wrong- unless you love fighting for the state or being some political pawn out there. I'd like to get some libertarian views on this. I don't know why people feel that it is honorable to fightin a war. Unless you really liked empire building I don't see what you would find honorable in fighting a war.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Josh Dennis: Spideynw:Japan offered the U.S. government terms of surrender yes they offered america terms of surrender right after pearl harbor but thats about it. we pleaded peace or they would face a new terrible wepon, they denied, saw what a nuke was like, refused again, third time agreed.
Spideynw:Japan offered the U.S. government terms of surrender
yes they offered america terms of surrender right after pearl harbor but thats about it. we pleaded peace or they would face a new terrible wepon, they denied, saw what a nuke was like, refused again, third time agreed.
http://www.fff.org/comment/ed0701d.asp
The "Allies" were completely unreasonable. There was no need to kill thousands of innocent people. But you have revealed yourself to be the sicko that you are. You obviously like to kill people, without cause. You are a neo-con, nothing else.
At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.
Spideynw:There was no need to kill thousands of innocent people.
Hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT people.
You're right. Just another neocon. No libertarian would excuse the killing of one innocent person let alone mass murder on that scale.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
I think Walter Block supported the killing of "human sheilds" for self-defense. Although that justification doesn't apply here.
Josh Dennis:yes japan knew that if they wanted to forcefully take chinas oil rubber and other resources americans were befriending china, thus the attack
You call the 'unequal treaties' befriending? Fascinating.
Josh Dennis:as previously stated the alternate choice was invasion and the destruction of the japanese.I think the japanese would agree this would be worse
Actually the Japanese were very much growing tired of the war itself. There were mixed emotions towards the US coming to Japan for their surrender, some jumped off cliffs, others thought that the Americans would rape all their women, and yet there were others who welcomed the Americans and the end to war.
'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition
Josh Dennis:yeah to bad they attacked us but they did.
Bear witness to the bodies of those whom you say 'too bad' too. Burned alive due to the firebombing of Tokyo. No doubt a child is somewhere among the charred remains. And no doubt at least ONE of these people attacked us if you are so delusional to think that the people are always the government and the government actions are always in the positive interest of the citizens.
Laughing Man:You call the 'unequal treaties' befriending? Fascinating.
ok bad word choice
Laughing Man:Actually the Japanese were very much growing tired of the war itself. There were mixed emotions towards the US coming to Japan for their surrender, some jumped off cliffs, others thought that the Americans would rape all their women, and yet there were others who welcomed the Americans and the end to war
but all were training to fight
Laughing Man:that the people are always the government and the government actions are always in the positive interest of the citizens.
i dont but 1940's japan did and they would have followed government directives in most cases with little to no argument
Josh Dennis: Laughing Man:Actually the Japanese were very much growing tired of the war itself. There were mixed emotions towards the US coming to Japan for their surrender, some jumped off cliffs, others thought that the Americans would rape all their women, and yet there were others who welcomed the Americans and the end to war but all were training to fight
"all" ?
"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe
Josh Dennis: Laughing Man:that the people are always the government and the government actions are always in the positive interest of the citizens. i dont but 1940's japan did and they would have followed government directives in most cases with little to no argument
and propaganda mobilized women into the factories in the U.S. - it's all about self-defense on all sides once the bombs drop and the guns fire bullets. Dissents, depending on the atmosphere of the culture, are silenced or ignored to a certain degree (even Wilson during World War One locked up U.S. citizens that spoke out against that war). Hardly room for civil-disobedience (the truth of the disobedience is another topic).
wilderness: Josh Dennis: but all were training to fight "all" ?
Josh Dennis: but all were training to fight
Of course. The babies and the elderly particularly. The army is very good at demonizing and then killing the helpless. Macho guys like Josh get a license to kill civilians, and then make up stories about how it was for the greater good.
liberty student: Of course. The babies and the elderly particularly....
Of course. The babies and the elderly particularly....
well babies, you know how they come out of the womb now...
Josh Dennis:but all were training to fight
There is a portion of our 'nation' which knows and understands military tactics.
According to you that is enough to kill everyone no matter if it is compulsory or voluntary.
Josh Dennis:i dont but 1940's japan did and they would have followed government directives in most cases with little to no argument
Excuse me. This will sound arrogant but I think I happen to be at least one of the most knowledgeable persons in this forum on the Pre-WII Japanese social structure and nationalist organizations [ No one has in fact talked about Japan here unless it has to do with 1980's bubble activities ] and it seems to me that you have been watching too much 'Tora Tora Tora!' or some other film that demonizes the Japanese people as crazed fanatics. The civilian population after the early 1930's were to a large degree inconsequential to the aims and goals of the Japanese military. By that time the Young Officers organization and other radical militant officers had inspired so much fear within the civil government that they were able to condense power into a super political party in the Japanese diet [ they had already taken over the Japanese Cabinet and installed military leaders or those sympathetic to expansionist Japan policy ]. Individuals could only truly vote for the 'Imperial Rule Assistance Association', The Tokyo and Kyoto Universities were routinely objected to 'dangerous thought' purging, due to the Peace Perservation Act of 1925, anyone trying to formulate a political party that defied the government will would be imprisoned. By 1937 both the Anarchist and Communists in Japan were imprisoned due to dangerous thought, police raids were constantly happening in order to keep the populace in line. School education was dictated by the state and included feverent nationalist ideas about the superiority of the divine Japanese emperor over the world. Military generals were declaring Japan in a state of emergency, giving the false impression that spies from the west were inflitrating the Japanese people when really it was just due to their will to dominate. All this was happening and you say 'Well they just happily went along'
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Laughing Man,
I've read up on some Japanese history and culture, but you definitely seem to bring this from a greater memory/knowledge than I. Let me know if this is correct from what I remember. Didn't this start with the Meiji Restoration and then this set-up an easier slam dunk for the military to take over in time?
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