As I've mentioned before in another thread I've been studying history for a while now. I can't figure out where people get this idea that it is honorable to fight in a war. In fact I've pretty my view on war is almost completely a pacifist one. I do not feel that wars of aggression need to be fought. Nations need not be invaded by one another. Wars of imperialist conquest are just simply wrong and there are better methods of uniting a region rather than just war. I feel that the only wars that are really justified in history are revolutionary wars, or, rebellions. I don't think even those need to happen. I feel that revolutionary wars happen only because an imperial power is somewhere they aren't supposed to be, so, they pay the consequences. Other than that- wars are just wrong- unless you love fighting for the state or being some political pawn out there. I'd like to get some libertarian views on this. I don't know why people feel that it is honorable to fightin a war. Unless you really liked empire building I don't see what you would find honorable in fighting a war.
Harry Felker: Byzantine:I'm simply pointing out that some people will gladly trade their personal liberty for a place to eat and sleep. Only if communists are right....
Byzantine:I'm simply pointing out that some people will gladly trade their personal liberty for a place to eat and sleep.
Only if communists are right....
I have to agree with Byzantine. Libertarian thinking is not the norm. Many people see statism and liberty tradeoffs for material gain as perfectly acceptable. It's not just commies. It's our teachers and preachers, it's our uncles and grand-parents. It's all around. We're a fraction of the population, and in the US, maybe 20 years away from some sort of minarchist breakthrough.
It's good to be honest with ourselves. And as he indicated, if you know how the statist think, then you can find ways to exploit that for personal gain.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
Harry Felker:Only if communists are right....
Haven't you ever been to a public housing project?
liberty student:Libertarian thinking is not the norm.
If it were we would not be rattling cages LS, I would be enjoying peanut butter and chocolate :o)
liberty student:Many people see statism and liberty tradeoffs for material gain as perfectly acceptable. It's not just commies.
I am willing ot stand out on a limb as say that people who would are not too far off from accepting Communism for material gain....
liberty student:We're a fraction of the population, and in the US, maybe 20 years away from some sort of minarchist breakthrough.
Have I told you how patient I am when it is something I want?
liberty student:It's good to be honest with ourselves. And as he indicated, if you know how the statist think, then you can find ways to exploit that for personal gain.
I am of the opinion that if you let them starve, they will die, and then we have less obstruction to a breakthrough...
I understand the horrific implication of this thought process, but the fact remains I kill mosquitos, I am at least letting the human bloodsuckers have the chance to learn and live through their mistakes...
It sounds like the ocean, smells like fresh mountain air, and tastes like the union of peanut butter and chocolate. ~Liberty Student
Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
Although not an answer to your question, but something I've been thinking about. What bugs me is when the media only reports American deaths in a war. That's just disrespect. It is like no other deaths really matter, that somehow an American life is worth more than an Iraqi or British life. Never mind the many more thousands of innocent civilians who lose their lives. We'll just pay attention to the thousands of Americans. Now I'm not saying it's only like that in the US. I'm sure they do the same thing in Britain, France, Germany, etc.
My opinion on this issue is apparently shared by Walter Block. Not that that makes it right, but there is a healthy debate on the subject, contrary to the shock and horror which greeted my post here. The fact is there are many people whose skills are so fungible and ability to live in complex society so tenuous that an offer of lifetime servitude is their best bargaining chip for food and shelter.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block134.html
It is also a position shared by me.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Its just an extension of the same idea that it is honorable to protect the small weak kid on the playground from the bully. I think that it was seen as honorable to protect your family when the family next door raids your house, carry that over to village tribes,cities,nations ect. Those are all defensive conflicts, then a group discovers that the best defense is a good offense(tactically and strategically true in a war opposite applies when speaking on foreign policy and starting wars), or that it is imperative to defense to capture a resource or location that happens to belong to another group, then came preemptive strike. There is a yearning (an honorable one) to protect ones nation, its defense of the soil, the people, your family and the group(nationality) you identify with. I find it perfectly honorable to fight in a war, those who start them should be held to greater scrutiny. To the soldier while he is intelligent he trustes his countrys elected leaders and does his duty because he is ordered to. He may disagree but he does his duty because of the idea that he is doing the will of his country. He goes on orders and fights the battles with no lofty national or political goals but for the man next to him. In regards to the individual soldier, military service is an honorable and comendable action and sacrifice.
To give you an idea on my perspective- I am about to become a midshipmen and when I complete college will be commissioned as a Marine officer. I come from a long line of career military vets going back to the revolution. I started to consider myself a libertarian about a year ago and have been emersing myself in libertarian and other related philosophys since. Also because I have not been sworn in yet I can say this, I am joining the military because I want to defend america, my homeland and my countrymen, to defend freedom(while things may be bad freedom has a better chance of flourishing here than anywhere else). I serve my country and my countrymen not any government. I will temporarly be a pawn but it is a price I must pay for the time while things get fixed.
Natalie: State only exists because of aggression. That's why I think that getting rid of it completely peacefully is highly unlikely.
State only exists because of aggression. That's why I think that getting rid of it completely peacefully is highly unlikely.
Well, it does lead into a paradox of sorts. State's emerge out of agression and/or fear, but they also perpetuate these two things as well. Self-defense against the state would be spun by state propaganda as an 'attack' on 'freedoms', & a rationalized civil war is eventually down the road between statists & anti-statists of the same country.
More realistically (I do not see some sort of anti-statist vs. statist ultimatum coming for quite sometime, honestly), we will probably see this regarding sucessionists in favor of smaller states and/or smaller government, as the overall government's continue to grow.
Interestingly, I just began read this article while writing this post here, which depicts a possible future where secessionists become the domestic terrorist scapegoats of the Brave New World in 2084.
That's why the greatest weapon is the spreading of our ideas and philosophy. In the even of a violent selfdefense and it was declared by the government as an"attack on liberty" if there were enough enlightened people out there we could refute it easily
Joshdennis:There is a yearning (an honorable one) to protect ones nation, its defense of the soil, the people, your family and the group(nationality) you identify with.
To give you an idea on my perspective- I am about to become a midshipmen and when I complete college will be commissioned as a Marine officer.
I am joining the military because I want to defend america, my homeland and my countrymen, to defend freedom
I serve my country and my countrymen not any government.
Thank you for the defense of our soldiers
I would like to point out there are more libertarians in the military than you think, I am a libertarian joining the military, my dad is a libertarian in the military and libertarian ideals appeal to the same people than typically join the military.
you are a despicable fool. You fail to realize three things
1 a nation consists of more than a government
2 untill you get the whole world to buy into anarchy on more than an idealogical level you will need some rudimentary form of government to provide defense
3 If you greatly stress the distinction between the thinkers and fighters you end up with fools for defense and only cowardly intellectuals
You do not know me you do not know my beliefs do not tell me why I choose to give away my life so you can keep yours or doubt the If we actually had a government solely restricted to defense I would give my self to it so people like you can keep yours away from it.
you also fail to address all my comments and only note those that you can refute as a ignorant"scholar" on a highhorse seperate from the realitys of life
Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528
Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119
contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises
Mises.org sitemap