wombatron: Daniel:Also, Kwisatz Haderach is a Christian communist? lol. The Bible is full of pro-property rights-ness. How can you be a true Christian but not believe in property rights? You can find support for pretty much any political position in the Bible, if you look hard enough.
Daniel:Also, Kwisatz Haderach is a Christian communist? lol. The Bible is full of pro-property rights-ness. How can you be a true Christian but not believe in property rights?
You can find support for pretty much any political position in the Bible, if you look hard enough.
Go on...
My favorite online shop: www.cafepress.com/libertyphile
Liberals are basically just a naive set of people driven by false ideals of altruism that do not stand the test of human nature.
Nitroadict: Part of what makes this process so effective is partially, in fact, due to the deep faith they have in the moral correctness of their views, because afterall, they have to continually feel the sense of pleasure of repeatedly arguing against their immortal opponents- the statist-right. Converting people to their views is only target practice for whenever they get into shouting matches with their statist brethren (statist-rightists).
Part of what makes this process so effective is partially, in fact, due to the deep faith they have in the moral correctness of their views, because afterall, they have to continually feel the sense of pleasure of repeatedly arguing against their immortal opponents- the statist-right. Converting people to their views is only target practice for whenever they get into shouting matches with their statist brethren (statist-rightists).
I assume you meant "immoral" rather than "immortal". You could not have chosen a more practical issue to use as an example - universal healthcare. I hear the "immoral" case quite often. They will say, "Everyone deserves health care. To deny them that 'right' is immoral". I was thinking about this argument recently, and I have decided that my retort will be that those that want universal health care will use immorality (theft through taxes) to correct immorality (the supposed "denying" of health care).
Regarding the rest of your post, it is spot on. I once worked with a self-described communist who used the very tactics you described. I never did buckle under his pressure. Not because I am some outstanding genius; but because I was aware of the tact taken by his ilk.
Jacob Bloom: Liberals are basically just a naive set of people driven by false ideals of altruism that do not stand the test of human nature.
Exactly. Well said.
richie2044: Nitroadict: Part of what makes this process so effective is partially, in fact, due to the deep faith they have in the moral correctness of their views, because afterall, they have to continually feel the sense of pleasure of repeatedly arguing against their immortal opponents- the statist-right. Converting people to their views is only target practice for whenever they get into shouting matches with their statist brethren (statist-rightists). I assume you meant "immoral" rather than "immortal". You could not have chosen a more practical issue to use as an example - universal healthcare. I hear the "immoral" case quite often. They will say, "Everyone deserves health care. To deny them that 'right' is immoral". I was thinking about this argument recently, and I have decided that my retort will be that those that want universal health care will use immorality (theft through taxes) to correct immorality (the supposed "denying" of health care).
I meant to say immortal, but I was also emphasizing how the leftists constantly require the rightists in order to maintain relevance in their arguments; immoral would've been good too, as it you said, it would've showed how the leftists consistently view the rightists (& many others that do not share their views) as immoral. It's quite ironic how rightist-reactionary the statist-leftist is against those they view as immoral, & further shows there is ultimately little difference between the two.
WARNING: This signature violates Rule 5. Stay classy!
I find it funny that they are so scared of other ideas that they keep people out.
At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.
Spideynw: I find it funny that they are so scared of other ideas that they keep people out.
I wonder if this (and their emotionalism) is due in any way to their philosophy. Wasn't it hegel who considered subjective life to be the only real thing and didn't he meld the idea of logic and reason with the ideas of history and action? So the highest reason is truly action and indeed reason is never an objective search for facts but rather a tool for the development of history (or as the cynical leftist saying goes "history is a weapon")...
I don't know but it does explain their (from our view) irrationalism in terms of rejecting logic as a "tool of white oppression" and in rejecting economics as propaganda for the ruling classes.
Similarly as Spideynw wrote, maybe the highest freedom is community "freedom" (the general will), which explains their ability to be pro-freedom but anti free speech -they are transcending the bougeoise notion of freedom for the higher proletarian notion
Conza88: krazy kaju:Good job making us all look like fools. Impersonating others is never a good idea. Please don't attack me for something I didn't do. And you're the one presenting yourself from mises.org , not me. Jumping to conclusions is never a good idea. As far as this goes, I'm interested in responses from actual marxists / socialists - LTV, minimum wage etc. It's interesting because it goes back to having the correct epistemology. A priori is a joke & absurd to them, so essentially we're all talking past eachother... lol, which doesn't make for a productive use of time. What I do believe can be gained from the socialists is their strategies & tactics in regard to revolutions, which is what I am interested in. From what I understand, we spend 90% of the time on our philosophy, and 10% trying to make it happen. They spend 90% of the time trying to make it happen, and 10% of their philosophy. Finished reading Dedication and Leadership by Douglas Hyde a few months ago, he spent 20 years in the party, former communist and it was very interesting. So besides that I don't see much use in confronting the socialists, there are folks out there who haven't got a world view of fallacies built up around them. But to each his own.
krazy kaju:Good job making us all look like fools. Impersonating others is never a good idea.
Please don't attack me for something I didn't do. And you're the one presenting yourself from mises.org , not me.
Jumping to conclusions is never a good idea.
As far as this goes, I'm interested in responses from actual marxists / socialists - LTV, minimum wage etc. It's interesting because it goes back to having the correct epistemology. A priori is a joke & absurd to them, so essentially we're all talking past eachother... lol, which doesn't make for a productive use of time.
What I do believe can be gained from the socialists is their strategies & tactics in regard to revolutions, which is what I am interested in. From what I understand, we spend 90% of the time on our philosophy, and 10% trying to make it happen. They spend 90% of the time trying to make it happen, and 10% of their philosophy. Finished reading Dedication and Leadership by Douglas Hyde a few months ago, he spent 20 years in the party, former communist and it was very interesting.
So besides that I don't see much use in confronting the socialists, there are folks out there who haven't got a world view of fallacies built up around them. But to each his own.
Conza, you know that I pretty much love you (no homo) and I'm not actually angry at you. I'm angry at your actions.
liberty student: They do seem to be generally quite nasty. I'm not sure what value can be found in engaging them.
They do seem to be generally quite nasty. I'm not sure what value can be found in engaging them.
There is value in showing the bankruptcy of socialism and communism to anyone who is visiting the site.
Does anyone else see the irony that they are anarchists who restrict speech, and exercise property rights via moderation on their forum? The whole thing seems somewhat disingenuous.
The whole thing seems somewhat disingenuous.
Very disingenuous.
GilesStratton: krazy kaju:Good job making us all look like fools. Impersonating others is never a good idea. Regurgitating Austrians and ignoring all the rest of economic theory will also, nonetheless, people here feel quite comfortable that regurgitating Rothbard will "refute" everybody else.
Regurgitating Austrians and ignoring all the rest of economic theory will also, nonetheless, people here feel quite comfortable that regurgitating Rothbard will "refute" everybody else.
To be fair, it's hard to resist quoting Rothbard when he completely destroys an argument your opponent just made. Somethings are just better left to others to be said (or written).
Mises Community Natural Rights Discussion Group
Hooray! I'm back at confronting Marxists
http://www.revleft.com/vb/facade-marxist-class-t111115/index.html
'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition
Just don't make it seem like we're invading their website, since those were not my intentions in the first place. Don't do anything to discredit this forum, LvMI, or libertarians in general.
I was once a Marxist, I know what to say.
Anarchist Cain: I was once a Marxist, I know what to say.
You should also format your post & make more paragraphs for easier reading, so there isn't as much of a "wall of text" excuse to exempt members from reading it.
Good suggestion
Just curious, when did you change your beliefs, and what was most effective in swinging you to the other side?
Fluery: Anarchist Cain: I was once a Marxist, I know what to say. Just curious, when did you change your beliefs, and what was most effective in swinging you to the other side?
I became a NeoCon after 9/11, then a Conservative, then Libertarian during the Ron Paul movement. Then I read Lysander Spooner's No Treason. Instantly became an anarchist.
Honestly, these guys are too easy.
i still wish we had a better justification for capitalism than self ownership tho, it's a pretty weak argument imo, as are natural rights.
Get them to read Healing Our World by Dr. Ruwart, or watch the economics videos By Shanedk (youtube). They're both chock full of good evidence and sources showing Austrian Economics (Free Market stuff) to be effective in helping the poor and everyone else.
liberty student:They do seem to be generally quite nasty.
You should see the ones posting on the free market videos on youtube.
As Shane Killian put it: "I had no idea there was this many economic woos out there. This is like a religion."
What's more, some of their comments sounded like they were from religious fundamentalists...take that comment from that Communist Christian and the others about how they wish we would all die...gawd.
Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528
Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119
contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises
Mises.org sitemap