I must admit that I've never understood the clain that two individuals claim the same property under fractional-reserve banking. Will someone explain this to me? One is the debtor, right?
the freedom to trade in square-circles! a noble ideal!
look i don't object to gamlebanks per say, i object to banks that make contracts that are fraudulent. if you tell me the gamblebanks you have in mind will be clear and straightforward, that they are trading in lottery tickets then I will be happy for your niche providers to find their market. gambling coexists with card-games, sport, why not banking too?. i see nothing wrong with it. just lets not pretend they arent gamblebanks though, eh?
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
Maxliberty: Juan:Still advocating banking communism eh ? ... Things like a mixed commodity bank that offers gold and silver or any other basket of commodities would basically be outlawed by the Austrians. I see no reason for such things. Let people decide the level of risk they want. Let the market determine what notes will be traded at a discount or at face value. I see no reason that should be imposed on anyone, by the Austrians or anyone else.
Juan:Still advocating banking communism eh ?
... Things like a mixed commodity bank that offers gold and silver or any other basket of commodities would basically be outlawed by the Austrians. I see no reason for such things. Let people decide the level of risk they want. Let the market determine what notes will be traded at a discount or at face value. I see no reason that should be imposed on anyone, by the Austrians or anyone else.
What are you talking about? What Austrians would impose a gold-only money or a non-basket-of-commodities money? What Austrian don't want let the market decide what should be money?
My favorite online shop: www.cafepress.com/libertyphile
nirgrahamUK: the freedom to trade in square-circles! a noble ideal! look i don't object to gamlebanks per say, i object to banks that make contracts that are fraudulent. if you tell me the gamblebanks you have in mind will be clear and straightforward, that they are trading in lottery tickets then I will be happy for your niche providers to find their market. gambling coexists with card-games, sport, why not banking too?. i see nothing wrong with it. just lets not pretend they arent gamblebanks though, eh?
As long as we agree that loaning money is gambling as you are defining it. So all loaning of money is a form of gambling...fine.
Daniel: Maxliberty: Juan:Still advocating banking communism eh ? ... Things like a mixed commodity bank that offers gold and silver or any other basket of commodities would basically be outlawed by the Austrians. I see no reason for such things. Let people decide the level of risk they want. Let the market determine what notes will be traded at a discount or at face value. I see no reason that should be imposed on anyone, by the Austrians or anyone else. What are you talking about? What Austrians would impose a gold-only money or a non-basket-of-commodities money? What Austrian don't want let the market decide what should be money?
I am speaking about you and your Austrian brothers. If you are not allowed to substitute assets or convert assets to meet redemptions then a mixed commodity bank becomes impossible. Is that clear enough for you?
MaxLiberty: Juan: Still advocating banking communism eh ? No just freedom.
Juan: Still advocating banking communism eh ?
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Maxliberty:No just freedom. Things like a mixed commodity bank that offers gold and silver or any other basket of commodities would basically be outlawed by the Austrians.
Maxliberty: Daniel: Maxliberty: Juan:Still advocating banking communism eh ? ... Things like a mixed commodity bank that offers gold and silver or any other basket of commodities would basically be outlawed by the Austrians. I see no reason for such things. Let people decide the level of risk they want. Let the market determine what notes will be traded at a discount or at face value. I see no reason that should be imposed on anyone, by the Austrians or anyone else. What are you talking about? What Austrians would impose a gold-only money or a non-basket-of-commodities money? What Austrian don't want let the market decide what should be money? I am speaking about you and your Austrian brothers. If you are not allowed to substitute assets or convert assets to meet redemptions then a mixed commodity bank becomes impossible. Is that clear enough for you?
When did I ever argue for a gold-only money? When did I argue against a mixed-commodity bank? When did I say that the market shouldn't determine the money? I can haz proof?
Daniel:When did I say that the market shouldn't determine the money?
What if market chooses fiduciary meda, banknotes. Would it be fine?
Juan: MaxLiberty: Juan: Still advocating banking communism eh ? No just freedom. You said nothing about the current banking system which, as I hope you know, is an arm of the government and is 'insured' using resources stolen through inflation ? Are you not saying that the current system works just fine and is an example of 'free banking' ? Or, in other words, that 'free banking' would not be any different, or at best slightly different, from the current system ? Perhaps I misread you...
i have no use for government, period. The government is in control of the current system so that control should be removed. Yes, many of the things ivewed as fraud by the Austrians are not fraud and would and should continue in a society without government. For example a bank that offers redemption in gold and silver should not be prohibited, which functionally would be the case if the Austrians and their bank police have their way.
Knight_of_BAAWA: Maxliberty:No just freedom. Things like a mixed commodity bank that offers gold and silver or any other basket of commodities would basically be outlawed by the Austrians.No it wouldn't, liar.
Austrians believe that converting assets to meet redemptions is fraud. So if you had a bank that say offered 30 different redemption options...gold, silver, copper, platinum, oil..whatever and you had 30 deposits each with the respective type. The Austrians would say well what happens if everybody returns and wants gold? The Austrian prohibition of converting assets to meets demand make this type of bank impossible. I think people should be free to choose.
Daniel: Maxliberty: Daniel: Maxliberty: Juan:Still advocating banking communism eh ? ... Things like a mixed commodity bank that offers gold and silver or any other basket of commodities would basically be outlawed by the Austrians. I see no reason for such things. Let people decide the level of risk they want. Let the market determine what notes will be traded at a discount or at face value. I see no reason that should be imposed on anyone, by the Austrians or anyone else. What are you talking about? What Austrians would impose a gold-only money or a non-basket-of-commodities money? What Austrian don't want let the market decide what should be money? I am speaking about you and your Austrian brothers. If you are not allowed to substitute assets or convert assets to meet redemptions then a mixed commodity bank becomes impossible. Is that clear enough for you? When did I ever argue for a gold-only money? When did I argue against a mixed-commodity bank? When did I say that the market shouldn't determine the money? I can haz proof?
Austrians wish to prohibit the ability to convert assets to meet redemptions thus making mixed commodity banks impossible. Perhaps you don't agree with the Austrian theory.... I apologize if I misunderstood you.
Maxliberty:Austrians wish to prohibit the ability to convert assets to meet redemptions thus making mixed commodity banks impossible. Perhaps you don't agree with the Austrian theory.... I apologize if I misunderstood you.
strawman,
"anarchists are against the burying of innocents!"
response: "no we are against the murder of innocents, once they have been murdered we dont object to someone burying them per se"
nirgrahamUK: Maxliberty:Austrians wish to prohibit the ability to convert assets to meet redemptions thus making mixed commodity banks impossible. Perhaps you don't agree with the Austrian theory.... I apologize if I misunderstood you. strawman, "anarchists are against the burying of innocents!" response: "no we are against the murder of innocents, once they have been murdered we dont object to someone burying them per se"
Are you now in favor of permiting conversion of assets to meet redemptions? Or are you just upset at the contradictions in your arguement?
the point is if people want to convert some property to send it on to someone else, thats not unlibertarian. whats unlibertarian would be selling square circles. so it all depends on what these contracts would say. present contracts are no good for me to analyse because they are all government regulated and definitely fraudulent/criminal.
so if you want to propose various possible contracts i will analyse them along with you in an effort to find which possible contract is compatible with rothbardian contract theory and which ones arent.
nirgrahamUK: the point is if people want to convert some property to send it on to someone else, thats not unlibertarian. whats unlibertarian would be selling square circles. so it all depends on what these contracts would say. present contracts are no good for me to analyse because they are all government regulated and definitely fraudulent/criminal. so if you want to propose various possible contracts i will analyse them along with you in an effort to find which possible contract is compatible with rothbardian contract theory and which ones arent.
Just take the contract you signed and replace the government guarantee with a private insurance policy. Is that contract ok?
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