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Fractional Reserve and Property Rights

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Individualist posted on Fri, Jun 12 2009 9:40 PM

I must admit that I've never understood the clain that two individuals claim the same property under fractional-reserve banking. Will someone explain this to me? One is the debtor, right?

"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."  - H. L. Mencken

 

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Juan replied on Sat, Jun 13 2009 12:27 AM
One may be the debtor, but despite being the debtor he is temporarily 'owning'/using the money he loaned. The same money that supposedly is also available to the original depositor.

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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But the original depositor knows he won't get all his money if the bank doesn't have enough money on reserve to give him. The depositor agrees to this situation.

"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."  - H. L. Mencken

 

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Juan replied on Sat, Jun 13 2009 6:19 PM
But the original depositor knows he won't get all his money
Does he know ?

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Juan:
But the original depositor knows he won't get all his money
Does he know ?
Anyone can know how banks operate if he only wishes to find out. But even if he didn't know at the time he deposited his money, he still agreed to the situation.

"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."  - H. L. Mencken

 

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Anyone can know that i put rocks into the bag which I have emblazoned with the label "potatoes" if they only wished to find out.... but even if they dont know at the time they gave me 2$ for the bag, they still agreed to the situation.

 

 

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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nirgrahamUK:

Anyone can know that i put rocks into the bag which I have emblazoned with the label "potatoes" if they only wished to find out.... but even if they dont know at the time they gave me 2$ for the bag, they still agreed to the situation.

 

 

What false beliefs [parallel to the potatoes label] do banks wish to impress on the minds of the people? Most people know what happens during bank runs.

"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."  - H. L. Mencken

 

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please provide your surveys /polls

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Juan replied on Sat, Jun 13 2009 7:38 PM
You asked how duplicated claims arise.

Whoever gets a loan is given an amount of money which he supposedly uses to purchase something. The debtor has 'claimed' and used an amount of resources.

On the other hand, the depositor expects to get his money back whenever he wants it. He has a claim against the bank.

Now when you consider all depositors it's easy to see that all their claims against the bank exceed the repayment capacity of the bank because resources have been lent and are under control of debtors. Both debtors and creditors are 'claiming' part of the same property.

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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nirgrahamUK:

please provide your surveys /polls

 About how people know nothing about banks loaning out deposits.

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whatever claims you want to make about what most people know. come out and make them.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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nirgrahamUK:

whatever claims you want to make about what most people know. come out and make them.

Go ask the average person what they think of fractional reserve banking.

 

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

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Individualist:

nirgrahamUK:

Anyone can know that i put rocks into the bag which I have emblazoned with the label "potatoes" if they only wished to find out.... but even if they dont know at the time they gave me 2$ for the bag, they still agreed to the situation.

 

 

What false beliefs [parallel to the potatoes label] do banks wish to impress on the minds of the people? Most people know what happens during bank runs.

 

What you will find with the Austrians is that they are unable to address the issue of people consenting to behaviour they dont agree with. The Austrians want to outlaw your ability to make a loan to someone because they don't like the terms. Then the Austrians run around complaining about government mandates when they want the exact same control.

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GilesStratton:

nirgrahamUK:

whatever claims you want to make about what most people know. come out and make them.

Go ask the average person what they think of fractional reserve banking.

Go ask the average person what they think of liberty and I'm sure Giles "the coercive statist" Stratton will not be pointed out.  I don't know what's going on with you or maybe I'm now realizing your state of mind.  Yet I'm sure you'll have some ad hominem attack you'd like to make after I post this.

"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe

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Individualist:

Juan:
But the original depositor knows he won't get all his money
Does he know ?

Anyone can know how banks operate if he only wishes to find out. But even if he didn't know at the time he deposited his money, he still agreed to the situation.

If I put money in the bank as a savings account, gaining the average interest rate, with the condition I can retract my money at any time, did I agree to the bank making my money inaccessible?  I would think not...

It sounds like the ocean, smells like fresh mountain air, and tastes like the union of peanut butter and chocolate. ~Liberty Student

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