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Is libertarianism only possible in a highly educated society of freedom loving freaks?

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Byzantine:
Nonsense.  The Somalians take property rights extremely seriously.  If you don't believe me, go there and climb on somebody's cell phone tower or stomp around somebody's vegetable garden and see what happens to you.

Nonsense. The Government of the Socialist Republic of San Lorenzo take property rights extremely seriously. If you don't believe me, go there and climb on the phone tower of the Lorenzo State Phone Company or drive through the tall fields of the Lorenzo Department of Agriculture's Central Farm District and see what happens to you.

 

ha ha, you jest!

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 2:21 PM

nirgrahamUK:
ha ha, you jest!

Do you believe you should be free to climb people's cell phone towers or stomp around in their fields?  If so, then it's clear that you are the one with no conception of private property.

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haha, you jest!

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 2:23 PM

Answer the question hippie.

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the point i was making, was that the observation of someone applying severe violence to protect his possessions, does not prove the persons acceptance of legitimate property rights theory, and does not tell us that he has any respect for the property rights of others, just that he acts like an animal would to protect its kill.

i made this point by illustrating that your 'proof' if good for the paritcular somalian you have in mind, then surely it would be good for socialist collectives, good for state bureaocracies etc etc.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 2:40 PM

nirgrahamUK:
and does not tell us that he has any respect for the property rights of others, just that he acts like an animal would to protect its kill.

Tut, tut.  Those uncivilized wogs.  Actually defending their property.

You cannot assume that just because people will shoot you for trespassing that they do not respect the property of others.  In fact, I'd say you should draw the opposite assumption.  You don't have to be a white middle class college student who's read John Locke to appreciate the concept of private property.  Even animals do.  And Somalians, much as it appears to grieve you.

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actually animals dont. what planet are you on?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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GilesStratton:
People aren't moving to Somalia because they don't like the idea of living among dirty people with dark coloured  skin

a)You assume everybody is just as racist as you are.

b)Do you live in a arian only country?otherwise it must be very frustrating for you.

c)What does being intentionally offensive contributes to the discussion.

GilesStratton:

CorporateGhost:
If most people in Somalia were educated in economics and libertarian theory it would surely become a libertarian society, but without that education any revolution or momentary anarchy will end up whit a socialist regime in charge.

Outside of foreign intervention how do you suppose that happens? By the way, government can only arise from anarchy in the form of a monarchy, which is already preferable to today's social democracies

.

France had a monarchy now they have a social democracy. That's how it happens.

 

 

 

 

 

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 2:48 PM

Yes they do.  They make and enforce property lines as well.

I live on a planet that operates according to biological and physical laws rather than ideological abstractions.  We call it Earth.  Which planet do you live on?

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i live on the planet where Mises wrote Human Action

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Byzantine:
The problem anarchists have with Somalia, as Giles pointed out, is it's populated by dirty people with dark colored skin whose preferences differ from the preferences of middle class white college students.

Thanks for speaking in the name of all anarchist. You are making the same assumption as Giles.

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 2:53 PM

How does the fact that Mises wrote Human Action demonstrate that animals don't understand the concept of property?  Or maybe it doesn't and you realize you've lost this debate so you're just trying to appear clever.

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http://mises.org/humanaction/chap1sec1.asp

if the 'animals' you speak of , reason, have concepts, and are capable of udnerstanding property, and are capable of being moral, then its proper to call them Man.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 2:58 PM

Central governments have no control in many areas of Africa but I don't see anarchists capitalizing on the opportunity by moving there.  Instead, they move to highly regulated areas like Vermont or Portland to be around other white anarchists.

Just calling 'em as I sees 'em.

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 3:00 PM

nirgrahamUK:
if the 'animals' you speak of , reason, have concepts, and are capable of udnerstanding property, and are capable of being moral, then its proper to call them Man.

You're ignoring the point:  animals ARE capable of understanding property.  They even mark out borders around their property and will attack you if you violate them.

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and when they hunt in packs is that because they understand military strategy or just because it is in their genes and their instinct?

 

i can see your wolf pack now, with head of the pack (polticially ideology they have !) dreaming at night of his Napoleanic grandeur.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Byzantine:

Central governments have no control in many areas of Africa but I don't see anarchists capitalizing on the opportunity by moving there.  Instead, they move to highly regulated areas like Vermont or Portland to be around other white anarchists.

Just calling 'em as I sees 'em.

i take it you are not an anarchist?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Juan replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 3:08 PM
Byzantine:
I live on a planet that operates according to biological and physical laws rather than ideological abstractions.
I imagine you're unable to appreciate the irony of what you wrote ? You're ranting against ideology in a site devoted 100% to ideology ? Not to mention that your cheap materialism is just another philosophical position or ideology (one which sucks tho).

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 3:11 PM

You have genes and instincts too, and one of them is what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours.  Animals know this, even though they can't write a book about it.  So do Somalians, even though they haven't read John Locke and will act personally to defend their property rights.  I understand that sort of thing is practically outlawed in Britain, which explains why the place is turning into a socialist dump.

I get the idea a lot of people who call themselves anarchists are actually very uncomfortable with anarchy.

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Byzantine replied on Thu, Apr 23 2009 3:13 PM

Juan:
You're ranting against ideology in a site devoted 100% to ideology ?

Then this site is seriously out of kilter, because Austrian economics is nothing less than an acceptance of biological and physical reality:  man acts and resources are scarce.

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