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With Obama running GM and Chrysler, would you buy one of their cars, trucks or SUVs?

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Bogart Posted: Mon, Mar 30 2009 2:12 PM

Obama is going to backup the Maintenance Contracts of these auto makers.  Do you still one to buy one of their products as the manufacturers have even less incentive to improve mechanical quality?

Unless I get a huge break, I would not.  I am biased as I have owned 1 Chrysler, 2 GMs and one Ford and have had the best luck with Ford.

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jdcoffey replied on Mon, Mar 30 2009 2:19 PM

Not a chance.  I'm already forced to give them money through my taxes.  I'll never support them explicitly with my business.

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ladyattis replied on Mon, Mar 30 2009 2:22 PM

Nope, most American cars are crap. I prefer a simple Honda Accord, thanks. Cheap to repair, cheap to gas up, and enough room for two to four people if I have to cram more than myself into it.

"The power of liberty going forward is in decentralization.  Not in leaders, but in decentralized activism.  In a market process." -- liberty student

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The Rev replied on Mon, Mar 30 2009 2:29 PM

I think we're all going to be buying american cars whether we like it or not.

The Rev

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Sphairon replied on Mon, Mar 30 2009 2:32 PM

I'd love to have a Silverado or Tahoe, but with taxed-up gas prices at 5-6 $ per gallon (now, not during last summer), it would eat away my savings.

Plus, I'm not sure whether American cars still convey the same sturdy atmosphere when you know that they are built by the federal government.


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Yes, it is more likely now (soon) than any time before, since it seems as if other people (taxpayers) will be forced to pay part of it for me to drive it...

It'll take a few years before the gov supported US car industry starts churning out trabants DDR-style. In case the "trabant" isn't familiar in this forum, here's what it is, a car costing more than a years salary for an industry worker in the DDR and which required many years waiting time to be deliviered after order:

http://tinyurl.com/d2xppt

That's what the DDR produced up to the very end in 1989. Compare this communist German car with the contemporary mixed-economy German cars such as Audi, VW, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche.

It's not fascism when the government does it.

“We must spend now as an investment for the future.” - President Obama

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Bogart replied on Mon, Mar 30 2009 2:48 PM

It is actually worse.  CEO Obama has fired the previous CEO of GM and added a board member from a successful Korean, German, or Japanese auto maker?  No, from Northrop Grumman.  I am sure he is an expert in providing the products consumers want and his ability to lobby the government has nothing to do with the appointment.

Now I really want to buy GM.....

 

A better question might be:  What kind of price break would you need to buy a car from GM vs one of the other manufacturers?

20%? 30%? 80%?

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DavidI replied on Mon, Mar 30 2009 9:45 PM

The Rev:

I think we're all going to be buying american cars whether we like it or not.

The Rev

Yup, thats were Obama is going: competely socialized auto industry.

 

 

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Kakugo replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 3:13 AM

...cough... British Leyland... cough...

On a more serious note I find simply astounding, as I have often said, that you Americans fail to see the parallels between what happened to the British car industry and what's happening to your car industry. Have you ever heard about such colossal stinkbombs as the Morris Marina and the Triumph Stag? Have you ever heard about the exploits of "Red Robbo" and his followers or how the morally corrupt and inept British management expected their government to bail them out no matter what? Have you ever wondered why an industry that was on the forefront of technical innovation was wiped away in little more than a decade and what remains is either owned by enthusiastic individuals (Morgan, Ariel etc) or by foreigners (Aston Martin, Land Rover etc)?

I bet that the US government will, Soviet fashion, start to micromanage your car firms: hire this many people, build more hybrids, push the electric car even if we don't have the technology etc. Soviet engineers were very smart and found a solution: they knew that they had to design vehicles that could be repaired quickly and with the most basic tools available in the Russian Far East or Ukrainian countryside. They also knew that spare parts would be an option so they kept that in mind.  But what will happen when your Obama Gaia electric car breaks down? Modern vehicles are chocked full of electronics that cannot be repaired to keep emissions low and gadgets to keep buyers busy so they don't notice cars haven't basically changed in decades.

On a related note Harley Davidson is also feeling the strain... will they apply for government money too?

 Yes, it's time for the Dr Goebbels show!

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Sphairon replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 3:34 AM

Kakugo:
I bet that the US government will, Soviet fashion, start to micromanage your car firms: hire this many people, build more hybrids, push the electric car even if we don't have the technology etc

Isn't that what the Green New Deal is all about? Combining faulty economics with faulty Gaia ideology. Unfortunately, I don't believe that mutiplying these two negatives will bring us back to positive again.

Seriously though. When I think of American cars, I think reliable, long-lasting, tough build. I think F-150, RAM, Suburban, Sierra. They're great trucks to have, but artificial gas price increases and punitive taxation make them uncompetitive. In a way, it's unfair. As you say,

Modern vehicles are chocked full of electronics that cannot be repaired to keep emissions low and gadgets to keep buyers busy so they don't notice cars haven't basically changed in decades.

Of course, that's an indirect subsidy to the auto industry as well: disincentivizing ownership of plain-built combustion engines and instead rewarding ownership of unstable hybrids. More car sales, more profits.

I hope the unholy alliance between greenies and social democrats will soon lose its grip on humanity. Then, I'll look for one of these and drive it 'till the engine breaks:


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Kakugo replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 4:34 AM

Old US cars were tough and, even if not as reliable as Japanese, easy and cheap to fix. De Tomaso chose an US built large displacement V8 for their Pantera sports car precisely because it was powerful, had better reliability than similar European built units and was much much cheaper to fix. Of course, it was heavier and had larger displacement but who cared?

I am not blaming manufacturers for chocking their cars and bikes full of electronics, as long as they make them as reliable as possible: buy a Mercedes Benz sedan and you'll be statistically thirty times as likely to be stranded by an electronics failure than your neighbour owning a Toyota or an Honda. I often wonder why Daimler, one of the world's largest and most reputable car manufacturer (my father and grandfather owned many), has such problems. And the market took notice: people around here have started buying Lexuses and Infinitis, until a few years ago a definite fashion no-go. Mercedes is fighting back, saying that they are working very hard to improve reliability and customer satisfaction. And I trust them: they need to improve their products or else they'll go out of business or, worse, become a State-owned factory. Isn't free (yes, even a relatively free) market wonderful?

Will a State-owned GM be able to do the same or will its new owners just manipulate prices to sell more of their products?

 Yes, it's time for the Dr Goebbels show!

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Top Gear had an interesting comparison between socialist cars and contemporary western cars.

Skoda is a great example of what socialism did. Before WWII, Skoda was one of the leading car manufacturers in Europe. After WWII, when the socialists took over, build quality dropped considerably both in terms of workmanship and the materials used. By the end of Soviet hegemony, Skoda had become the butt of jokes all over Europe.
Drag not your strength from government, but from the voices they abuse.
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Definately.

You think I voted for a black guy so he could spend my money giving food to skinny kids in Africa? No, I want to be able to go into the showroom of GM and look at cars with pre-installed hydraulics and a boom box, I want to be able to ask the salesman which car is best for doing a drive by and which car is best for doing drug deals.

This is great news.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

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Spideynw replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 8:48 AM

I did not like GM cars before the bailout, and I will not like them afterwards.  But who is to say the rest of the world will not start bailing out their failing auto manufacturers?  That will leave the world with crap vehicles as all of them get taken over by governments.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Sphairon replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 9:32 AM

Kakugo:
buy a Mercedes Benz sedan and you'll be statistically thirty times as likely to be stranded by an electronics failure than your neighbour owning a Toyota or an Honda.

Bingo. I can't help but wonder why people still buy these overpriced machines full of failure-prone electronics. Honestly, a Mercedes used to symbolize something, but all it stands for right now is high maintenance costs in a licensed Mercedes auto shop.


I often wonder why Daimler, one of the world's largest and most reputable car manufacturer (my father and grandfather owned many), has such problems.

Where Daimler comes from, the auto industry is among the most politically connected business groups. I guess all those government orders made them lose some sensitivity for market demands.

 

Spideynw:
That will leave the world with crap vehicles as all of them get taken over by governments.

Sounds like a Randian scenario, expect that in Atlas Shrugged, there was a good producer in backwoods Colorado.

Time for a fresh startup, maybe?


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Gene L. replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 9:41 AM

Aye. We [Americans] absolutely must brush up on contemporary British history. Their history is our future: nationalized manufacturing and healthcare. Its all been rather disastrous. British parliament runs on CSPAN. Watch it as a warning. (Besides its rather fun to watch, like the nerdy version of a school-yard brawl).

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Gene L. replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 10:28 AM

Kakugo:
 Mercedes is fighting back, saying that they are working very hard to improve reliability and customer satisfaction. And I trust them: they need to improve their products or else they'll go out of business or, worse, become a State-owned factory.

You try to improve a product with those obscene labor costs (they even pay former non-retired workers). Sales aren't the issue. The government gave GM several billion dollars and it had absolutely no affect on its viability. Do you think it would have saved them if they made that much in car sales this year? The bottom line is that the only entity that can stay viable and cover the those labor costs is the government. That was the plan all along. Legislate them to death.

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